This is not a debate, so please don't respond if you don't agree with spanking.


My husband today gently spanked our son (1 spank on the butt) in a public restaurant (he is 18 months) when he didn't listen to us after a warning. The spank didn't cause him to cry or fuss but did get him to do what we wanted. I felt uncomfortable with him spanking in front of the public even though it wasn't very hard, simply because I am afraid people will think we are abusive or contact CPS. DO you worry about this? Do you spank in public? if not how do you handle disobedience in public. Once our son is old enough to not need immediate punishment, we will take him into a bathroom. But right now the punishment needs to be immediate since he is so young. What do you think?

Tough one. I'm interested in the responses. I have trouble spanking in public for the whole fear of being reported stuff too, but sometimes they NEED a spank, you know? lol

At that age I would likely 'instinctively' swat right then and there..as you said, just one 'pop'. More of that 'attention getter' that they need than actual discipline. (and as was previously stated...if you don't agree...don't go there, ok?) If it is something that needs a 'session' then I would remove them to the vehicle. We have gone to the restroom before, but I would prefer the vehicle because it is just that much more removed. (fewer eyes and ears) (again, if you don't agree, keep it to yourself, click out of this thread now, ok?)

(sorry, I can just 'hear' the opposition butting in after every note)

He is young and does need immediate response...removing to the vehicle is not too long of a wait. Tell him he is being disobedient and he has one more chance to correct himself, if he does not, you will take him to the vehicle for a spanking. He is NOT too young to begin to understand this. Just explain to him what he is doing wrong, what he needs to do to correct and the consequences for not doing so. If he continues to disobey, say 'ok we have to go out now because you continued to disobey' take his hand and walk him out. Have your usual disciplinary talk in the vehicle and dole out the precursory swats for such offense. Continue your talk as you should be doing at home. Make amends and come back inside.

HTH

You do have to watch your back these days. Folks will call CPS over ANYthing and the system is so screwed up they overreact to everything too. I try to be more aware of such things. Though earlier in this journey I didn't blink an eye.

However, discipline shouldn't be a public spectacle anyway. That would be humiliating. (again, keep it to yourself those who disagree w/spanking) Discipline isn't about humiliating the child into submission...it is about training and reaching the heart issue...things that should be done in privacy. It is best to always remove the child to a private room for disciplining...away from siblings and other family/friends. Just you and the child, face to face, heart to heart. :)

Oh, yeah, Becky, spanking can be a serious matter these days with CPS.

First off, are you sure it's still legal in your state? I think it still is in most states. In Washington, you're allowed to spank with an open hand below the shoulders, and not hard enough to leave a mark, of course. Some states don't allow that anymore. That would be good to find out for sure, just in case anyone were to ever accuse you of child abuse.

As for spanking in public, we never did. Just too dangerous. A gentle swat could easily be reported as a violent beating by an unbalanced individual. I wouldn't even take the kidlet to the bathroom or the car to do it; just being extra careful.

I think for the most part, just leaning in and talking to kidlet quietly, warning them, was usually all it took in public, PTL. But, when we were pressing through a training stage, I would literally clear my calendar and my life for a couple of weeks so I could be home and totally available to discipline appropriately without any distractions. If I had to go to the store or anything, I'd wait til hubby was home so he could watch the kidlets. Those training stages were very short because we made them our number one priority and were able to be totally consistent until we were through the stage.

Blessings, hon! [hug]

Joy [welcomewave]

About the car idea; these days you need to be extra careful about spanking in a car because there are tons of surveillance cameras everywhere, and they're so powerful now! In our area, a woman was arrested for spanking a child in a car with her open hand when it was caught on a surveillance tape. She was vindicated, but not until 'after' her kids were taken away and she went through the whole court process. It was a long time before she got her kids back, and technically, she did nothing wrong.

[loveflag]

Joy [welcomewave]

True on the camera thing...
However it would still be a good idea to take the child to the vehicle and reprimand them. ;) That alone can be a powerful tool. (I've used that before too...sorry I forgot to mention it previosly)

That's a good one, Tara, taking the kid to the car to have a little chat so they know you mean business. [OK]

[heart]

Joy [welcomewave]

WoW! I am glad I am learning all these things now! I had no idea it was such a big deal! I mean... spanking in the USA....

I am against child abuse (Did I really need to say that??? I think there is nobody here "pro abuse") but I am all for spanking when necessary!

I have a friend who lives in the same city I came from, which is right in the Border (Mexico/USA) and... it was "funny" to see how her 2 year old would start acting up as soon as they CROSSED THE BRIDGE (It's amazing how kids realize these things) ... so, as soon as they were in TX the kid would start acting up 'cause HE HAD REALIZED his mom WOULD NOT SPANK HIM "once they crossed the river" ...

So... my friend kept telling him: You'll se once we are in Mexico! :mrgreen:

She wouldn't beat him up of course ... just spank him... but even those things kids realize he he he.... So, I knew it wasn't "easy" to spank a kid in USA but I didn't think it would be "so hard" ... What my friend would do if the kid would definitely continue acting up would be take him to the restroom too....

Sorry if I am being really random here... and Sorry for using this thread more for learning than to help... I will be waiting for more responses too...

All I can say is that GOD has SPANKED ME more than once .... sometimes it's been privately but.... He's spanked me in public when necessary too! [sadashamed]...

Paloma.

LOL
Sorry, but yeah, that's 'funny' Paloma ... we're used to 'you just wait til your dad gets home' but...'wait til we get back to Mexico' LOL that's FUNNY!

Shows how smart kids are though huh? Folks don't give 'em enough credit I'm tellin' ya...they know far more than you realize ;)

LOL
Sorry, but yeah, that's 'funny' Paloma ... we're used to 'you just wait til your dad gets home' but...'wait til we get back to Mexico' LOL that's FUNNY!

Shows how smart kids are though huh? Folks don't give 'em enough credit I'm tellin' ya...they know far more than you realize ;)

I know!! yup ...

My parents never spanked me! But I always knew they could and would If I did anything to deserve it! so... I was pretty well behaved [halo]

:)

I guess I'll have to tell Natalia (if she ever needs a spanking): "You'll see on vacations... when we go to Mexico!" he he

[whatwacko]

Paloma.

I underestimate Josh's intelligence when it comes to knowledge of right and wrong a lot sometimes. So my question is do you think an 18 month old can know something is wrong and hold onto that knowledge until we are in a private area??? Tara you implied that but I want to make sure I understood that was what you meant. We tell Josh when something is wrong and he should obey us if he loves us ect. ect. but we haven't gone into huge depth into explanation with him and we have always made punishment immediate. However if he is at an age that I could go to a private area with him first (I would prefer to spank in our room even if no one else is home) I would like to start doing that. I hope that all made since.

I will look into our laws here in CA. I am not sure what they are. I know a man who has sole custody of his daughter and CPS is VERY involved with his parenting simply because of allegations from his X. Anyways they won't even let him "time out" his daughter. She has no discipline because he is so afraid of CPS and because of that it shows in his daughter.

spanking laws by state:

http://kidjacked.com/legal/spanking_law.asp

spanking laws by state:

http://kidjacked.com/legal/spanking_law.asp


thank you for that link! CA looks like as long as it is "age appropiate" and there are no marks it is "ok" Our personal spanking family rule is one spank per year of life maximum....so if the kid is 3, no more than 3 spanks. It is just a way to make sure we are calm before spanking and controled. So I feel that is "age appropriate"

I underestimate Josh's intelligence when it comes to knowledge of right and wrong a lot sometimes. So my question is do you think an 18 month old can know something is wrong and hold onto that knowledge until we are in a private area???

Becky, you know, I do think an 18 month old can remember quite of bit if there's been a lot of conditioning beforehand. BUT, I believe the really, really, really, really (how's that for a lot of reallys? LOL!) important thing is.... train him to respond to NO. Then he won't have to memorize the rules. See? If he respects 'no' and responds right away, you don't need to pressure the little guy to remember everything at such a young age. Just teach him to respect and obey you every single cotton pickin' time you instruct him. After all, there will be many situations in his young life that neither of you can predict or rehearse, and him knowing to heed your voice every time will protect him. Hey! Just like US learning to heed God's voice protects us! :mrgreen:

Whatever form of loving discipline we choose, and wherever we decide is the safest and best place to teach and train, I honestly believe that pouring our lives into training them up when they're young is one of the most important jobs of our entire lives! And, I've already learned from experience, all the hours of blood, sweat, and tears (oh, and I won't forget prayer!) we sow into them pays back HUGELY in the blink of an eye... if you never give up on them and let their young flesh rule their lives. Just like in adults, that causes them to feel insecure and unstable. [heartbeat]

You're doing a great job, Becky, and it's wonderful that your hubby is so obviously involved in your sweet son's upbringing. [lovesmile]

[loveflag]

Joy [welcomewave]

I would strongly discourage spanking in public and that includes restrooms and cars. I don't think the public arena is a time for discipline and training. It's more of a stage to show you what you may be missing daily at home. But it's a good thing. Just view it as a window to see what you can work on at home. What we see in public often reflects what he's doing at home already. We just need to work on it there. [hug]

Thank you all for all of your responces. My question now is how do i get him to obey?!? We really try to be consistant with his dicipline, We are, I feel for the most part on the same page with most everything with some minor things that come up here and there. We are trying to make him listen to us the first time we say something and after that he will get disciplined. With me, when I tell him no, he will look at me and smile like "ya right mom" and a few minutes later go right back to it. With dh he listens better, and he says when I am around he doesn't listen to him as well. I know I have growth that needs to happen in my parenting because he is my "baby" and I hate spanking him. My swats are much lighter than my dh. usually with mine he will just smile, my dh he will sometimes cry and then come over to me for cuddles. I think maybe that right there needs to change. but I just hate seeing him cry.

so back to my question, how do you get them at this stage in life to listen to you the first time with or without spanking? Is there anything that I have said before parenting wise, that I should change? (again please don't debate the spanking issue, thats not what this thread is about)
thanks

I have to say that I am against spanking full stop but have used it in dangerous situations. By this I mean in situations that Sinead has willfully placed her life in danger. Over here in the UK it is illegal to smack our chilren and if reported for doing so we can loose our children and be in trouble.

I do not like spanking for the reason that I do not like inflicitng violence on Sinead. This is not against any one here as I believe each and every parent is different and have there own way of doing things.

I do not think you should spank in public as people can be very judgmental and all it takes is one persons judgement to land you in heaps of trouble. With Sinead I try to divert her away from the bad behaviour, so if being trouble then I would say hey Sinead looked at that. If she does not respond I would carry on looking at the object but say something like wow its so red.

I am not sure what else to say, I find it hard to be helpfull when giving adivce because as I say every one is different.

I hope that you find the answers soon though, good luck hunny.

I avoid spanking in public for the same reasons as stated. I have an 18 month old too and when she misbehaves in public, I take her hand, look her in the eye, say "no" very firmly and squeeze that little hand! No one can see it, but she knows!

I also really agree with Joy. She knows "no" and that means stop whatever it is you are doing at that moment. It's reinforced all the time at home and so when we were out this morning, when I said "no", she stopped what she was doing. Good thing, a glass of ice water down her front would not have been fun!

I find the hand squeeze to be really useful though as it gets the message across very effectively and it's private even though you are in public.

I sometimes hate going out with the kids. Mainly to eat. I can manage them while we're busy shopping, but sitting, waiting for food is something of a headache. But this morning, I was happy to see that all three of mine are learning. Oh... maybe not, to keep dd happy, I opened one of those packets of peanut butter while we waited! LOL, glue their mouths shut, that works too! ROFL...

We spank, but I don't in public for safety reasons. We have always used a flick with the finger or a squeeze on hand or leg in public. I agreaa that public places are where we see how we are doing at home, but sometimes situations come up in public that you don't have at home, so you have to deal with them there. 18 months isn't too young to know the difference between obeying and not.:-D I believe a spanking should hurt, or result on crying. Not beating obviously, but it should be something the kiddo is afraid of. Otherwise it isn't a deterent at all. At our house it goes something like this, warning, disobedience continues, talk something like this "Mommy told you not to touch, etc. and you did not obey", then spanking, holding until sorry is said, then cuddling and loving. We always felt that it is very important for them to say sorry for wahtever it was they did, at that young we would help them, "you need to say sorry for not obeying". At 18 months, "sorry, mommy or daddy" might be his limit of words, I don't know. Dh and I also agreed not to interfere with each tohers discipline. For example, I told dd to do something and she didn't obey, I disciplined her and took care of it until it was finished. If dh started something, he finished it. NO cuddling from the other parent until the discipline was completely over, sorry had been said, and the crying stopped. Otherwise it undermines the other parent and teaches the kiddos to see one of you as the "good" parent protecting them against the "mean" parent. Anyway, that is how it is around here. It's a tough subject, especially with the first, since everything is new. Sounds like you guys are doing a great job![claploud]

so back to my question, how do you get them at this stage in life to listen to you the first time with or without spanking? Is there anything that I have said before parenting wise, that I should change? (again please don't debate the spanking issue, thats not what this thread is about)
thanks

Becky, I think the big thing is being totally consistent and being completely confident in your role as the mommy. Ya see, daddies don't often deal with the guilty bleeding heart that most of us nurturing mommies have. They 'know' their authority, which is the key reason why most kids stand at attention when their daddies say no, and yet when mommy tries to discipline exactly as daddy does, junior doesn't respect her as much and pushes her, testing her. We need to know our authority. It really is a spiritual thing.

So, whether you choose to spank or to redirect, make sure you're tireless and completely consistent when you're home. Dinner goes on the back burner, the phone gets hung up, TV goes off... whatever the case may be, that child needs to know you'll stop at nothing, because you're the mommy. Be careful not to be emotional about your discipline. You can be loving and firm, but no sighing, begging, pleading, crying, over explaining, looking exasperated. This frustrates and confuses kids. I think this is where you have a child that appears to be messing with mommy, laughing as he tests her.

Another note, though I'm sure you're not doing this, Becky! :-D I really think it's wrong to bribe kids when you're redirecting them. A yes is a yes, and a no is a no. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. Redirect to what is right and what is theirs, but you shouldn't have to work hard to sell them on it. We're talking about growing a spirit of obedience, not begging and bribery to avoid conflict. Just remember, it's so much easier to teach a toddler not to touch the coasters on the coffee table than it is to keep a teen from climbing out their window at night. This is the best time to gain that respect. Don't give up. :mrgreen:

[lovesign]

Joy [welcomewave]

Joy, Madre, you guys are so right about training at home, and then they will behave outside. I never thought of it that way before.

OTOH, I have had people compliment me on how well behaved my kids were when I thought they were being really naughty, so I half wonder if my standards for public behavior aren't too high for them.

Thanks Joy, Jen, Madre, and Tara for those gems of wisdom.

ETA:
As far as I'm aware it isn't against the law (yet) to spank your child here in the UK. They are trying to pass a law that will ban you from spanking your child, but as of now it's not an actual law yet.

Thank you ladies for all your wisdom. This has sparked some good conversation between my dh and me. We know what we believe and have based our parenting on the Bible, but knowing how to go about it all is still a learning process. I think I am lacking the consistancy and being the authority. I am going to be looking and thinking more about our Fathers example for us. I know I will get it, but like it was said, I don't want my teen climbing out the window, I would rather get it niped in the bud now.

Thanks Joy, Jen, Madre, and Tara for those gems of wisdom.

ETA:
As far as I'm aware it isn't against the law (yet) to spank your child here in the UK. They are trying to pass a law that will ban you from spanking your child, but as of now it's not an actual law yet.

Thanks Evas I though it was illegal, sorry for the mix up. I know its frowned upon over here. When I had social service involvement this was the first thing they checked. I even had to do parenting courses to show me other ways of parenting sinead.

Now do not get me wrong when I was growing up I got spanked a lot. My gran would use her slipper, she even shut me in the dark kitchen once.

We're talking about growing a spirit of obedience, not begging and bribery to avoid conflict. Just remember, it's so much easier to teach a toddler not to touch the coasters on the coffee table than it is to keep a teen from climbing out their window at night. This is the best time to gain that respect. Don't give up. :mrgreen:

[lovesign]

Joy [welcomewave]


Such widsom Joy! I completely agree! With various ages of kids in and out of our house, with other parents doing things differently, we have had a lot of learning. But, I feel that now after 3 years of working through differences, we have found what works in OUR house. The older three kids have never needed real discipline from us. Occasionally, there has been an attitude adjustment needed with Megan, but that isn't very often. But Braiden and Hayden of course have needed discipline. Their mom does not spank anymore because she says it never works for her. But in our house, if I mention spanking, that's all it takes anymore to set them straight. We have our days that are harder, and Hayden is a tough one sometimes (stubborn!!! like his stepmom!) but we see them learning. Consistency has been the most important thing with us. Don't threaten or warn and then not follow through, KWIM? If you say stop...and they continue, then discipline.

Cash is 19 month now and he has caught on really well. For us, spanking is used on occasion - bigger offenses usually, such as biting, throwing, hitting. Saying "no" or "stop" usually works, but in the occasion when it doesn't, we do something diffrent. And no, we don't spank in public - for the same reasons many have given. If we are out and he needs discipline, we usually pick him up and talk to him gently telling him to stop or not do something. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But I have found that the times it doesn't, there are other factors. Such as he is sleepy, hungry, uncomfortable....and we are learning to schedule better and take those factors into consideration before we go out.

Good luck!

I won't do it. I live in a state where spanking is frowned upon and I don't want to have to answer to child services if they should come knocking. When in public and my girl has done something ridiculous, I've had to wait till we got home to put her over my lap.

I just don't need the hassle of the state becoming involved.

I'd never spank in public or argue w/ dh at that!!! The kiddos new w/ a stern look and that's enough...DH TOO :mrgreen: