Hello, i just joined the mommies club and am really needing some advice on my 2 and 3 1/2 year old having tantrums everytime we go to a public place. They usually scream, fight, or just misbehave. It happens usually when I am trying to talk to someone or pay for something, etc. If we go to a park or somewhere they are playing they are usually pretty good, but whenever I have to get a quick errand done or do something then I see it much more.

Any advice, does this happen to anyone else out there?
Thanks for the help!!

Dawn

Me, personally....

If my kids did that, I would promptly remove them and give them a few spankings. After which we would go back in and finish what I started.

Some would say, you leave. You just drop what you're doing and go home. Sorry, not an option for me. The kids will operate on *my* schedule. They *will* behave or they will get a spanking. Period. And we will repeat as often as necessary.

Let them know ahead of time such behavior will NOT be tolerated as well as the consequences for disobedience/misbehavior. And stick to it! If you spank, take them to the restroom and spank. Or out to your vehicle. Take care of business, allow them to get control over themselves again then go back to what you were doing. If spanking is not for you, find some other alternative. What that would be..I don't know...this is a spanking offense for me.

It's ok to reward occasionally for good behavior too. Don't do it every time so that they only behave for treats, but do comment positively EACH time, just offer a physical 'reward' once in a while. That could be a stop at the ice cream shop on the way home, or a new book or small toy (small stuff, think 'one dollar' range here, don't go crazy ;) ) You could do that like once every 4 or 5 trips. You could even set it up on the calendar I suppose "Ooo today we have to go do such n such, but we can stop for ice cream on the way home as long as everyone has good attitudes. Remember, if we have bad attitudes, ice cream stop is OFF. No ifs ands or buts about it, it's gone!" Give them one reminder while going about your business. If they're beginning to go 'there', politely remind "hmm does somebody *not* want to stop for ice cream later? Remember, we have to behave, EVERYONE, or NO ONE gets a treat. It's our special day, remember?" Then that's it...don't remind them again. From there, it's whatever discipline you have chosen for such an offense.

That's what I would/have do/done. Take what ya want ;)

My ds isn't yet two and is starting to do this, Tara, that is great advice. Thanks.

I agree with the spankings. That's what I would personally do.

I have no problem with spankings but I had an easier way that only took one time per child. The first was my sister who was born while I was a teenager. She was about 3 and got me in a store and threw a temper tantrum for a toy. I didn't even have the money to buy it. I got down on the floor and threw a temper tantrum with her. She hung her head in absolute embarrasement out of the store and never and I mean never pulled that on me again. I did it again with Brett when he was 3. It only took 1 time.

Have you ever seen a red faced kid?

Alicia

Alicia, that's hilarious!! [rotfl] [rotfl] You are one brave girl. I won't even go to the store without making sure my hair looks okay. [rofl]

[highfive]

Joy [welcomewave]

Have y'all seen the youtube video of such?
I'll see if I can track it down to post

I've never linked these before...here goes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uffJqLn8Rc

For us, planning is the key to preventing most tantrums (since little ones typically throw tantrums if they are hungry, tired or bored); I only have 2 weekdays off from work so I really need to maximize my time while still taking ds' needs into consideration, which makes the trip more pleasant for both of us! I have found that breaking up my errands helps too: we leave after breakfast so he has a full belly and is wide awake, and I keep some healthy snacks and a few small toys in my bag in case he gets bored or antsy. Then when it starts to get near naptime we head home so he can have lunch and nap (he never gets a long enough nap in the car), and then later on we head back out to get the rest of the errands done in the early afternoon, if we didn't get them done in the morning. Once in a while he will throw a little fit if he sees a toy or something that he wants, I just explain that it belongs to the store and he already has something similar at home. If he keeps it up I ignore the fit and keep shopping. When he is older and understands more I'll teach him that if wants that object so bad then he can save up all week and buy it on the next shopping trip himself.

Tara, I agree completely! :wink: It only takes once or twice and they know that you will follow thriugh on discipline. Also, a hard snip on the leg can be helpful if you are in line or somewhere you can't leave. Yes, you might get a few dirty looks when they say "ow" but if anyone comments you can ask them if they would rather see a fit! :lol:

I agree that planning is key. Shops are pretty overwhelming for me, let alone little kids! I get stressed out with the loud music and all the visual stimulation. I want to throw a fit. I either dont take my kids or I explain everything I expect from them before we go in. They are usually fine but sometimes they get sulky. I get very firm with them (tone of voice is everything for me, that and eye contact. I do not spank). I used to spank my son, and he threw massive fits. It didnt work.

I agree with the advice given. Especially the planning part. I get so angry when I make a late run to Walmart at 8:30 or 9:00 (DH at home, kids asleep) and see tons of kids there. They are whiney, tired, etc. It's sad. :cry: The key is consistency! Follow through every time!
When my daughter would cry or scream at the grocery, I would calmly tell an employee that I was going to park my cart with groceries by the door and would be right back. I would take my daughter to the car, spank her, hug her, and help her calm down, then go back into the store. I only had to do that 2 or 3 times. Then when my daughter would act up I would say "do we need to go to the car", she would get quiet and say "no" I also would reward behavior. It really helps when they are little if you can shop with DH or a friend or family member. Then Dh can take the child to the car if they can't behave. When DH takes them to the car they are usually back in a few minutes. My girls are 7 and 10 now. We don't spank anymore, but if the talk back, or act whiney or disrespectful (which is rare, but does happen) I still send them to the car with DH so I can finish shopping in peace. HTH

I've never linked these before...here goes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uffJqLn8Rc

That was hilarious! Wouldn't you just love to do that? Crack me up! Thanks for the giggle.

I usually found that when my kids acted up in public, I was missing some of the little things at home. I have been embarrassed more than once. :roll: Personally, I would distract the child or remove the child and ask the Lord to show you what it is that you're skimming over in their behaviour on a day to day basis.

I also would be very leery about administering spankings in public places i.e. restrooms and cars.

I've never linked these before...here goes...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-uffJqLn8Rc

That was hilarious! Wouldn't you just love to do that? Crack me up! Thanks for the giggle.

So funny! :D

I forgot to add that I try really hard to keep in mind what is age-appropriate; my son is only 19 months old so I cannot realistically expect him to behave the way a 3 year old can be expected to. A little tantrum over a desired object is completely normal at his age because he is still learning what does and doesn't belong to him. I also can't expect a tired or hungry child to behave the way he normally would if I made sure his physical needs were met before we went out. Don't get me wrong, I don't let him run wild or anything, I just try to use some empathy.

I also don't worry too much about what others in the store might think; he isn't the first (and certainly wont be the last) toddler to throw a fit! Besides, any reasonable person who has children will understand...and most people without children are going to find fault no matter what we do :roll: .

Thanks for all of the comments. I am from Missouri but currently we are living in London, England and we have heard that they handle discipline differently over here. One lady at my husbands work said it is against the law to spank here. I guess I feel like I am a bit frustrated on what to do. I do not know any 'mums' well enough over here to ask outright if they spank or not. It does seem that my kids are louder than the kids here in London, but maybe that is just me thinking that. We are only here another 5 months, but it is during the time of the two/three year stage, so I will keep praying that the Lord show me how I am to handle this. I would not want to take them out of a public place and spank if it is frowned upon here, but at the same time I do not want them to get away with it. I am going to keep on doing the rewarding system, and possibly remove them from the scene by taking them outside and discussing consequences when we get home and not getting the reward/treat on the way home as well. I also need to 'prepare' them for how I want them to behave inside a place and plan the day out better by setting clear expectations/consequences.

Much thanks again!!

You may want to check out some gentle discipline books, too; they focus on effectively disciplining without spanking. Two authors I know off-hand are Hilary Flowers and Crystal Lutton.

ITA with not spanking in public. When I took my dd to the car, we had a van with darl tinted windows and no one saw us, I also did look around before spanking. Our spanking sessions weren't really a "scene". I briefly swatted, and never enough to hurt my daughter, I just got her attention. Maybe just making them leave the store and sit in the car for a minute or two will help. After a trip with bad behavior I would tell my kids that they will not be coming with me next time. That's not an option for everyone, but I would leave them home with DH in the evening and remid my girls "you had bad behavior last week at Walmart so you won't be going with me this time. We will try again next week, but only if you don't ____ (ask to things, touch things not supposed to touch, etc.) My girls really liked to go with me so this worked for us.

Hey dawn Ive been livign in the Uk for almost 7 years now and about a year ago they were actually trying to make it against the law to spank your child. It didnt go thru but it has made an impact on public thought. I have spanked in the past but realized that I didnt have to in order to parent effectively. Ive found a website that discusses grace based discipline and I found that very helpful.

http://aolff.com/

There are a number of articles on the website that talk about the different options a parent has as an alternative to punative disciplining. As a christian I feel we are called to walk as Christ did and I cant imagine Jesus spanking a child. ever. that is what convicted me. That and the look on my daughter's face the last time I did it. It wasnt a look of pain but of humiliation. I decided I wouldnt do it again. Ive been tempted to do worse since then but thats my problem not theirs, my anger issues, not their lack of self control. I parent more effectively now that I have eliminated that aspect of disciplining. I treat them as I would want to be treated by God. With mercy and grace. I certainly dont want to be wacked everytime I step out of line. So I dont do it to my kids. And I think kids act like kids because they are kids, not because they are rotten little sinners. I dont think God sees kids like that either.

I usually found that when my kids acted up in public, I was missing some of the little things at home. I have been embarrassed more than once. :roll: Personally, I would distract the child or remove the child and ask the Lord to show you what it is that you're skimming over in their behaviour on a day to day basis.

I also would be very leery about administering spankings in public places i.e. restrooms and cars.

Sage advice! :) Preparation in proper child training at home BEFORE you leave home is the key! But even then children misbehave. Wisdom and descretion...are the other keys after that.

I certainly dont want to be wacked everytime I step out of line. So I dont do it to my kids.

I don't think (I hope not) that anyone is talking about whacking their kids everytime they make a mistake. I think that there are appropriate times when other discipline should be used and times when the discipline calls for a spanking.

Tara I do agree with you - and I also agree with preparation at home but I also believe that children do test the different waters of "what will Mummy do with others around, and among this environment that I am not quite used to yet" (do you get what I mean???) They are always testing...testing...testing... to find where the boundaries lay.

We personally do not allow tantrems - you do not have to have tantrems.
It is NOT crushing a child's right to express himself - a tantrem is not expressing ones-self it is defiant, naughty and rebellious.

My children no longer attempt tanties in the shopping centre.

I was taught by another Christian mother - pretend no one else is there if in a public place - kneel down in the child's face, hold his shoulders firmly (but not cruely) and state "you are NOT going to throw a tantrem" - talk to them quietly and calmly, don't loose it, don't get hysterical, ignore the eyes boring into your back staring, condeming and judging you as a mother (because lets face it we can all feel it a mile away when our kids don't behave) - if this doesn't work a calm threat of an at home punishment followed through will soon cure the behaviour.

DD attempts to whine and complain in the trolley and she is in trouble (Unless it is for a legitimate reason).

We also spank on our arrival home if the behaviour doesn't right itself under admonishion (I noticed this thred has turned somewhat into another smacking debate... the issue is rather like flogging a dead horse, so lets just say, some of you don't like spanking - we don't like spanking, but we spank)

Children learn quite early on how to manipulate circumstances, so if one is to leave the supermarket over a tanty the child soon learns "Well... this shopping trip doesn't suit me, if I throw a wobbly, I get out of it"
It is not always practicle to leave the shopping centre - we live too far away from the shops for me to simply be removing the child

There are also things included in my shopping trolley which are the kids favourites to eat - if they start misbehaving the goodies go back on the shelf.

Tantrems if not dealt with in mild or strong form can set up strongholds within a persons life, if not dealt with it can lead to them learning how to manipulate others - even when older, it can lead to forms of tantrems carrying on into later life (don't believe me, look around you LOL)
Life isn't always going to suit us, but chucking a paddy is not going to mould the world into the way a child or adult wants it to be, the sun is going to go on rising and setting, we all have to do things we don't like, and accept things that don't suit - and I feel this lesson if learned early only makes the transition into adulthood easier.

I may sound as if I am being strong but I have been living away from any family with a set of twins and now a NB for a year and a bit now - and not having my Mum around to take the kids for the sake of a more peaceful shopping trip (mind you, in the end I resisted doing this, feeling strongly my kids HAD to learn how to behave in public, so I declined Mum's help in the end) they had to learn... my kids were just 2 when we moved away from family... so right on the notch of when this behaviour begins. My kids simply had to learn to behave in order for me to do what was necessary -

We can now even take them along to cafes and have done so for a while and are able to sit through a pleasant meal with them. We are pleased with the results we have due to perservering in this area and I am glad I didn't pike when I lived near Mum and stop taking the kids with me to make it easier -otherwise they would have not been trained in his area.

xox AM

Man you should of seen the doozy of a tantrum Abby threw at the mall not long ago...
They were advertising this TJ Bearytales bear thing and a lady was doing little shows where the kids would sit on mats and she would get the bear to tell a story. Well, Abby wanted to see it of course. So we went over. She wasn't happy to sit in her stroller and wanted to get out. I knew that she'd just want to play with the toys that were on the little fake bedroom stage thingee and that she wouldn't sit still. But I knew that if I didn't take her out of her stroller that she'd cry. So I took her out and tried to get her to sit on the mat. But she went and started climbing on the stage and playing with some toys. So I took her off and she threw a tantrum and in the process of me taking her away she kicked off her boots. Thankfully no one was hit. Then she screeched so loud and this guy was sitting on the mat with his kid. He kinda covered his ears and I don't think he was very happy. Anyway, I was almost in tears because I was soooo embarrassed LOL So I walked off with her. I just wanted to discipline her but we were in public and I didn't want to spank her out of anger either. So I took deep breaths and stood around waiting for Paul to return from a different store and everyone was looking at us because she was still screaming and crying. ARGH LOL It seemed to take Paul forever to get back LOL
I just hate that. It's like people look at you thinking what on earth you are doing to the child. Well, I didn't do anything LOL Of course I took her away from exciting toys she wanted to play with. But I didn't have any choice. If she'd broken them I would have had to pay for them. I was standing there thinking "I really need a coffee right now" LOL LOL :(

Anyway, sorry to steal the thread there. :oops: It was just a really bad day LOL

I know it's probably not even a choice in the US due to safety but if Abby throws a tantrum and won't leave a store with us we say "ok bye bye" and start walking off. Unless we are in a toy store LOL That doesn't work. She just stays and plays with the toys while we are waiting for her to freak and run after us.
We did it at the doctors when she was playing with toys and didn't want to leave. We just said "ok bye bye" and she screamed and came running straight away :lol:

I agree that planning is key. Shops are pretty overwhelming for me, let alone little kids! I get stressed out with the loud music and all the visual stimulation. I want to throw a fit. I either dont take my kids or I explain everything I expect from them before we go in. They are usually fine but sometimes they get sulky. I get very firm with them (tone of voice is everything for me, that and eye contact. I do not spank). I used to spank my son, and he threw massive fits. It didnt work.

Yeah when I used to spank Abby she would hit me back. I don't spank as much as I used to. I'm trying to find other ways. She is just too young still to understand that if she does something she shouldn't that I'll take away her toys or anything like that. I don't think it will be much longer though.
I don't like Time Out. I don't know about everyone else but I don't have time to be going back and forth putting them back down on the naughty chair or whatever you want to call it. I like discipline to be quick. I think I like the reward system idea or taking away a toy and making them earn it back. Also most of all, talking to them about why what they did was wrong etc... and getting them to say sorry.

I have no problem with spankings but I had an easier way that only took one time per child. The first was my sister who was born while I was a teenager. She was about 3 and got me in a store and threw a temper tantrum for a toy. I didn't even have the money to buy it. I got down on the floor and threw a temper tantrum with her. She hung her head in absolute embarrasement out of the store and never and I mean never pulled that on me again. I did it again with Brett when he was 3. It only took 1 time.

Have you ever seen a red faced kid?

Alicia

Oh yes! I think I remember Dr Phil or someone telling a lady to do that. It works! Sometimes when Abby cries I'll cry too and then she laughs at me and stops crying. She forgets what she was crying about. I haven't yet tried throwing a tantrum LOL I don't know that I could do it in public though LOL :oops:

I saw Kirk Cameron do that to his little brother on a TV show once (well a kid that was playing his little brother anyway). It was really funny to see Kirk Cameron do that.

I'd be worried someone would assume I was high and call social services (but then you have to understand we live in a high substance abuse area)

Oh Honey! Just Go For It! You will feel so much better afterwards! :lol:

Kids are so easily embarrassed!

Alicia

Yeah when I used to spank Abby she would hit me back. I don't spank as much as I used to. I'm trying to find other ways. She is just too young still to understand that if she does something she shouldn't that I'll take away her toys or anything like that. I don't think it will be much longer though.
I don't like Time Out. I don't know about everyone else but I don't have time to be going back and forth putting them back down on the naughty chair or whatever you want to call it. I like discipline to be quick. I think I like the reward system idea or taking away a toy and making them earn it back. Also most of all, talking to them about why what they did was wrong etc... and getting them to say sorry.


OK this might sound a little mean but summer before last i was a nanny to 8 kids - crazy i know! 8 kids! anyway their ages were 4-13.

Anyway the youngest 2 girls would ALWAYS fight (they were cousins.) They would slap each other and steal each other's toys. For this they got 'time out.' sitting on a bench - but i quickly noticed that this didn't deter their bad behavior any, plus they would get up off the bench like 10 times etc. they only had to sit still for like 3-5 minutes (the kids were 4-5). But they wouldn't do it, and they still fought. Their parents said I could spank them if I felt it was necessary and called one of the parent's cellphones beforehand to let them know, but I felt uncomfortable doing that since they weren't *my* kids.

So I just introduced a new rule: If you get up off the bench, or talk to another person during your timeout, you will get up and spend your timeout standing with your face in a corner. If you moved out of the corner before the timer went off, the timer that was timing your time out got restarted.

Wow. They got the message quick. They hated not being able to look around from the bench during time out LOL, the fighting dropped off like 90% and they learned to share their toys. They still had the occasional spat - i mean they're small kids, but I rarely had to stick them in the corner anymore because they KNEW not to get off the bench. Worked really well! They did cry a few times from being in the corner.

OK that's my experience. You can think i'm a horrible nanny for making children stand in corners if you like, but it was better than having them smack each other's faces and pull each other's hair all the time. And after the first few times I never had to anymore because if they did get time out, they behaved by sitting quietly on the bench until their time was up. :) Yeah I am mean like that :twisted:

I saw Kirk Cameron do that to his little brother on a TV show once (well a kid that was playing his little brother anyway). It was really funny to see Kirk Cameron do that.

I'd be worried someone would assume I was high and call social services (but then you have to understand we live in a high substance abuse area)

LOL One of my friends reckons she could do it. I don't think I could.
It's so funny though.

Cheeseburger thanks for that :D I am open to any suggestions on other ways to discipline. And I don't think that was mean at all. It sounds like a great idea. :D

Cheeseburger - I don't think dealing with bad behaviour if done correctly is ever mean! Sometimes we have to be mean anyway LOL.

Renee - I have mimiced crying before but not a tantrem and that turned into a trantrem LOL Paris certainly didn't think that was funny LOL.
Whatever works for you hey?

That makes me laugh thinking of Abby laughing at you like that.

Cheeseburger - I don't think dealing with bad behaviour if done correctly is ever mean! Sometimes we have to be mean anyway LOL.

Renee - I have mimiced crying before but not a tantrem and that turned into a trantrem LOL Paris certainly didn't think that was funny LOL.
Whatever works for you hey?

That makes me laugh thinking of Abby laughing at you like that.

LOL It sounds like you have a very stubborn strong-willed girl there :lol:
Kinda like "hey don't make fun of my crying, you're supposed to give in to me!" :lol:

I have found that when Rhy throws a temper tantrum in a store I just continue shopping. When she sees that I am not bothered and she is not getting her way she eventually stops. I figure anyone who has a problem with my kid screaming either has no children or has absolute ANGELS because their kids never misbehave. Either way, they have no right to judge me.

Rhy's new thing is that she absolutely hates to have to hold my hand when we are walking through the parking lot. She drops to her knees and won't budge. If I pick her up and begin carrying her the problem just gets worse as she begins kicking and screaming. As a single mom this tends to be a problem as I don't have a lot of time to get my errands done and there is no one else to watch her every time I need to run somewhere.

Sara

For what it is worth my opinion is train, train, train. I think we get caught up in discipline and forget the training.

Though there is a place for dicipline, God calls ALL of us to have self control. A tantrum is not self control so how are we teaching our children self control. Do our children recognize good and bad choices? Can they identify what is a bad choice and know that bad choices have consequences? If not, it is our job to teach them. For some that is harder then for other because we have allowed our children to disrepect and manipulate us from birth. Our children are smart and with consistency and proper guidance they can learn to make good and bad choices.

Children love to role play. They love to pretend to be big people. They are sponges for interaction and they learn very quickly. I believe we can teach our children at home through role playing what good and bad choices are leading to better behavior in public.

Abi (2 1/2) and I role play good behavior. We have a grocery cart and items that we put out to play shopping. As we play I teach her what good behavior is in the grocery store. I praise the good behavior and remind her of our play times when we go to the real store. Encouraging her to make good choices because if she makes poor choices there is a stated consequence. (I have only had to follow through with a poor choice consequence in public once since implementing the training sessions at home.) By role playing at home and teaching her that she has the power to make good choices and bad choices I take the power struggle away and equip her with the ability to behave.

Some of the responses dealth with training by disciplining after the behavior occurred. As you saw it worked, but why wait for the poor behavior to surface and then have to react with a discipline. Why not be proactive in teaching our children the behavior we expect from them. For those that can't or don't want to for whatever reason spank in public or have to leave what they are doing, I find that home training is just as affective. We have role played the expected behavior for everything from staying in bed (which works even when we travel), to shopping, to walks, to sunday school behavior, you name it. Anything you want to teach your child can be role played. If they get it wrong its a no pressure situation - no glaring stares boring in at the back of your head- and you just role play it again until they get it right.

I learned the hard way that disciplining in public can get you in trouble. I do spank Abi but it is in the privacy of our own home and only as a result of her knowingly making a poor choice. When she can't exhibit the self control to make the right choice to obey and knowingly and willfully disobeys she gets a swat. Otherwise it is a training session involving time outs.

I think our children are very intelegent and we don't always give them the ability or opportunity to correct their behavior with grace. Abi is now capable of recognizing that she is making a bad choice and she will even put herself into time out to allow herself to calm down and make good choices. She still make poor choices but I am starting to see that she recognizes the need for self control and when she can't do it on her own, she puts herself into time out until she can.

Sorry this was such a long post...I hope some of you can glean something out of what I have shared. Abi has been a strong willed child and this is what has been working for us. I hope it will continue to work for our son as well.

I find myself in the midst of this as well. David was actually having a tantrum the other night at church (a guest church as we were having a community unity service), so I put him in time out in what I thought was a discreet location... didn't work out as such. A woman passed by and apparently felt the need to comment on the tantrum she was hearing. She didn't believe in spanking, or time outs... instead "get a cup of water and throw it in [his] face." She said she did this to her daughter when she was little because that was the only thing that would wake her up to reality. :?: While I admit that water in my face would certainly wake me up... I'm not sure about the, umm... well, if it's right or not. I mean, people do that to dogs... but kids? I don't know... What do you think?

...

On a side note, I am exploring other options for discipline as David would try (and usually succeed) in hitting me if I spanked him. A few months ago, he went to hit me, and was a little off course. I threw my hand up in the air to stop the impact, ... and my pinky finger suffered. At first I thought he had broken the pinky... Doctor said no, but wanted to check for a broken knuckle. When x-rays came back normal, they worried about a torn tendon. What an uncomfortable adventure that was. Over the next few weeks, I had several doctor visits. After a full month, a doctor finally said that it must have just been a severe sprain, and that it appeared to have been healing well. *big sigh*

Alison