When a person says that they are fully AP is this what they mean?

Dr. Sears' Eight Ideals of Attachment Parenting
Per Dr. Sears' theory of attachment parenting (AP), proponents attempt to foster a secure bond with their child by promoting eight "ideals," which are identified as goals for parents to strive for. These eight ideals are:

Preparation for childbirth
Emotional responsiveness
Breastfeeding
Babywearing
Co-sleeping safely
Avoiding frequent and prolonged separations between parents and a baby
Positive discipline
Maintaining balance in family life
These values are interpreted in a variety of ways across the movement. Many attachment parents also choose to live a natural family living (NFL) lifestyle, such as natural childbirth, home birth, stay-at-home parenting, homeschooling, unschooling, the anti-circumcision movement, the anti-vaccination movement, natural health, cooperative movements, and support of organic food.
However, Dr. Sears does not require a parent to strictly follow any set of rules, instead encouraging parents to be creative in responding to their child's needs. Attachment parenting, outside the guise of Dr. Sears, focuses on responses that support secure attachments.

taken from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_parenting

I have never read books up on this and have always wondered what exactly people mean other then co-sleeping and baby wearing when they say AP. The above article goes on to say that AP try to understand their children and not expect more of them then they are capable of... I thought that was what all parents try to do... hmm guess I'll have to read more :)

Those are the PHYSICAL aspects of A/P. It goes much deepr than this.
Here's an article I posted on my A/P site:

Are you an 'Attached Parent'?
Some of you would answer that question with an emphatic "Yes!" But some of you might repeat the question to yourself and say, "I don't know - I think so - am I?" or, "I don't think so. I don't practice all of the AP ideals".

I am often contacted by confused parents like a mother who recently asked, "I no longer breastfeed my baby, I try to babywear, I like the idea of having an attached relationship and using positive discipline...is it OK to practice some of the ideals and not others? Am I still welcome among your group of attachment parents?" After talking with people like her I find myself struck by the possibility that many more parents could be disillusioned about what it fundamentally means to be an attachment parent and where they fall into the parenting philosophy spectrum. How many parents are out there wondering - "Where do I fit in"?

Attachment parenting isn't about how often we take our children on outings or how many minutes a day we spend reading to them or even whether we use a stroller or a sling, cosleeper or crib.

As far as I'm concerned you can practice most of the ideals of attachment parenting - babywearing, breastfeeding, cosleeping, limiting separations, etc. and still not be an attachment parent if you don't let yourself get emotionally attached to your baby or child. Or you can choose to practice almost none of these ideals and still be an attachment parent if you do form a genuine emotional connection.

I'm not talking about whether you love your children or how much. If you're even reading this, I'm sure you love your children. What I'm talking about is a deep mutual understanding and knowledge...about empathy. Attachment forms when we take the time to really get to know our children, from their favorite games, to their persistent fears, to their most cherished expressions of our love for them. It happens when we allow ourselves to cross over into their world, into their shoes, to feel what they feel and to respect those feelings as being every bit as important as our own. Attachment parenting isn't about how often we take our children on outings, or how many minutes a day we spend reading to them, or even whether we use a stroller or a sling, cosleeper or crib. It's about being in tune with who they are and what they need.
About placing a priority not just on their physical health, but their emotional health, and recognizing the importance that parenting has in reaching that goal.

Attachment parenting in today's western society takes something else too, faith in our ability to parent our own children and a reliance on our inner knowledge of our children to guide us in raising them. Mainstream thinking in our corner of the world has not yet evolved to embrace the importance of a solid foundation of peaceful attachment for optimal child development or to understand the damage caused to children whose emotional needs are trivialized. Parenting resources still abound with one-size-fits-all child-raising rules and fix-it-all solutions that neither respect the child nor the parent-child relationship. Who knows your child best? You do, right? This is true especially if you have a strong attached relationship. And who knows how to parent your child best? You do, of course. Not your mother-in-law, not your best friend, not your pediatrician, Dr. Phil, or the latest advice-giving expert. Every person on this planet is unique, physically and emotionally, and every child has unique needs that change as they grow. Listen to your child and to what your relationship and deep knowledge of your child tell you to do, and politely shrug off any well-meaning advice to the contrary.

De-feather all of the talk about attachment parenting and you'll find that it's really about just one thing - connection. A true connection fosters mutual sensitivity, understanding and trust, essential ingredients for a strong positive relationship. With The
connection like this, the ride that is parenting, with all of its sunshine and its storms, is a more enjoyable and more successful journey for both the child and the parent. Our attached relationship with our children guides us as we escort them from their days as needy infants, along the twists, bumps, calms, chills and thrills of their childhood, adolescence and young adulthood to the great plateau of their adulthood. With their hearts and minds full from a lifetime of basking in our support, our children can carry with them the tools they need to form their own true connections with the rest of the world.

And it's pretty hard not to form a strong connection and get to know your child really well when you do breastfeed, spend lots of time with them, wear or carry them everywhere you go, are available to them all night, use positive discipline and practice the other ideals of attachment parenting. These are the tools that enhance the quintessential ideal of attachment parenting, Emotional Responsiveness.

If you are a parent who trusts your instincts to nurture, who gets behind your children's eyes and into their heads,
tries to understand what it is like to live from their perspective and really gets to know them...if you ask yourself, "how would I feel if I were in my child's place and how would I want to be treated?" If you strive to have the kind of connection between you and your child that brings out the best in both of you, and work to understand your child's needs and to help her feel her best, you are an attachment parent. And as an attachment parent, you not only love your children, you love being with them, learning with them, and building on that attached relationship for a lifetime.

As far as I'm concerned you can practice most of the ideals of attachment parenting - babywearing, breastfeeding, cosleeping, limiting separations, etc. and still not be an attachment parent if you don't let yourself get emotionally attached to your baby or child. Or you can choose to practice almost none of these ideals and still be an attachment parent if you do form a genuine emotional connection.


HMmm I'm not sure that I understand this... how does one NOT "emotionally attach to their child.... from reading the above everyone would be AP

I'm not talking about whether you love your children or how much. If you're even reading this, I'm sure you love your children. What I'm talking about is a deep mutual understanding and knowledge...about empathy. Attachment forms when we take the time to really get to know our children, from their favorite games, to their persistent fears, to their most cherished expressions of our love for them. It happens when we allow ourselves to cross over into their world, into their shoes, to feel what they feel and to respect those feelings as being every bit as important as our own. Attachment parenting isn't about how often we take our children on outings, or how many minutes a day we spend reading to them, or even whether we use a stroller or a sling, cosleeper or crib. It's about being in tune with who they are and what they need.
About placing a priority not just on their physical health, but their emotional health, and recognizing the importance that parenting has in reaching that goal.
I'm not sure that we can "cross over into their world" I mean, every parent should be trying to understand their child... I'm pretty sure that to some extent this is what all parents do...guess I'm still not seeing a real distinction here.


Attachment parenting in today's western society takes something else too, faith in our ability to parent our own children and a reliance on our inner knowledge of our children to guide us in raising them. Mainstream thinking in our corner of the world has not yet evolved to embrace the importance of a solid foundation of peaceful attachment for optimal child development or to understand the damage caused to children whose emotional needs are trivialized. Parenting resources still abound with one-size-fits-all child-raising rules and fix-it-all solutions that neither respect the child nor the parent-child relationship. Who knows your child best? You do, right? This is true especially if you have a strong attached relationship. And who knows how to parent your child best? You do, of course. Not your mother-in-law, not your best friend, not your pediatrician, Dr. Phil, or the latest advice-giving expert. Every person on this planet is unique, physically and emotionally, and every child has unique needs that change as they grow. Listen to your child and to what your relationship and deep knowledge of your child tell you to do, and politely shrug off any well-meaning advice to the contrary.

De-feather all of the talk about attachment parenting and you'll find that it's really about just one thing - connection. A true connection fosters mutual sensitivity, understanding and trust, essential ingredients for a strong positive relationship. With The
connection like this, the ride that is parenting, with all of its sunshine and its storms, is a more enjoyable and more successful journey for both the child and the parent. Our attached relationship with our children guides us as we escort them from their days as needy infants, along the twists, bumps, calms, chills and thrills of their childhood, adolescence and young adulthood to the great plateau of their adulthood. With their hearts and minds full from a lifetime of basking in our support, our children can carry with them the tools they need to form their own true connections with the rest of the world.
I'm pretty sure that I'm not necessarily the best mother for my children, I'm just the one that God choose for them... He is the one that really knows what they need... I think that if I let my emotions lead with my kids then I would NOT be raising them to be Godly people... our emotions often cloud issues and don't let us see when... well... our kids are being brats :D


And it's pretty hard not to form a strong connection and get to know your child really well when you do breastfeed, spend lots of time with them, wear or carry them everywhere you go, are available to them all night, use positive discipline and practice the other ideals of attachment parenting. These are the tools that enhance the quintessential ideal of attachment parenting, Emotional Responsiveness.

If you are a parent who trusts your instincts to nurture, who gets behind your children's eyes and into their heads,
tries to understand what it is like to live from their perspective and really gets to know them...if you ask yourself, "how would I feel if I were in my child's place and how would I want to be treated?" If you strive to have the kind of connection between you and your child that brings out the best in both of you, and work to understand your child's needs and to help her feel her best, you are an attachment parent. And as an attachment parent, you not only love your children, you love being with them, learning with them, and building on that attached relationship for a lifetime.


I'm pretty sure, better yet, I'm sure that a person can form a strong connection with their children without necessarily doing a lot of the things mentioned... I did nurse my children but on a schedule, I never co-sleep and I did not "wear" them... I'm not really convinced... I don't really see what AP is unless it's taken to extreme... although my children's feelings are important, as little children their opinion doesn't really matter in a lot of cases... I am their mom and I DO know what's best for them in most cases. When I read these types of articles (which I'm not trying to pick on this one just trying to understand) what I come away with is that, well for example, the last paragraph:


And as an attachment parent, you not only love your children, you love being with them, learning with them, and building on that attached relationship for a lifetime.


Does this mean that if you aren't an AP then you only love your child but you don't love being ith them and learning with them and building a relationship for a life time? That's what it always sounds like to me... I guess I really don't get it :D I always think, well, I don't want them to be so attached to me that they don't need the Lord! As small children yes, their security comes from us as thier parents but as they grow it needs to be from God... how does that figure in to AP?

Just FWIW, I don't think all mothers/parents form an emotional connection with their kids. They probably do love them deep down. But they don't "feel" the love inside. Sometimes it's like they just don't care. Sometimes something tragic has to happen before they realize/feel it.
I mean, if you really have an emotional connection with your child and you love them soooo much you do the best you can to protect them, then why are there mothers out there that will just leave their baby at home all alone and go off to the pub to drink and gamble? I remember a time when I was working at the supermarket that a mother and father left their two kids alone in the car in our parking lot, unlocked. The toddler was only wearing a diaper and both kids got out of the car and were running around in the carpark. They could have been hit by a car. And someone could have stolen the car and them. So many different things could have happened. They were very lucky (or maybe not lucky because maybe if something happened they would have realized what they did and how wrong it was instead of not caring) that we were watching those kids and my boss ended up taking them up to the office, giving them iceblocks (it was Summer) and calling the Police. Then she said she better take them back to the car incase the parents came back and the father lost his temper and hit her or something. So she took them back to the car. The parents unfortunately, got back to the car and took off before the Police arrived. But we got the license plate number and so they hopefully found them (if the car wasn't stolen).
And we asked the kids where their parents were. Their reply was "at the pub". :x :( :cry: :evil:
HAD something terrible happened that day the parents would have felt guilty for the rest of their lives and probably never forgiven themselves. And I guarantee that something like that would never happen again with any kids they had in the future. I just don't get some people. :x
I don't care what problems they had. There was no excuse for leaving their kids alone in the car. I don't care what they do to themselves but when you have kids you take care of them. :x They don't deserve to be parents IMO

Not all parents agree with this parenting style...some incorporate it without even realizing there's a name for it. A/P's biggest difference is discipline.

I agree, some women should never have had kids. I see it everyday too--plus I was a product of it with my mother. She was a good mom when it suited her. There were a lot of emotional stresses I endured.

I think that is why I do many off-stream things (A/P). I tend to 'overparent' or over compensate as some say. I do not force my children to 'mold to my lifestyle'...instead I balance my time around them. A happy child is a happy mom. Don't get me wrong, it's not easy and not really fair to me. I have many times keeled over with frustration. I have lost myself. A/P is exausting. I don't want to write down the differences in A/P and other forms of parenting..(which there are many forms and technigues. I incorporate many different parenting styles.) I think this will get too heated. You can always check out Dr. Sear's website for more info: www.askdrsears.com Many people are co-sleeping, breastfeeding, babywearing and giving over 100% We are all individuals with the right intentions---to love our kids and to raise them thru Christ.

Hugs :!:

Preparation for childbirth
Emotional responsiveness
Breastfeeding
Babywearing
Co-sleeping safely
Avoiding frequent and prolonged separations between parents and a baby
Positive discipline
Maintaining balance in family life
These values are interpreted in a variety of ways across the movement. Many attachment parents also choose to live a natural family living (NFL) lifestyle, such as natural childbirth, home birth, stay-at-home parenting, homeschooling, unschooling, the anti-circumcision movement, the anti-vaccination movement, natural health, cooperative movements, and support of organic food.
However, Dr. Sears does not require a parent to strictly follow any set of rules, instead encouraging parents to be creative in responding to their child's needs. Attachment parenting, outside the guise of Dr. Sears, focuses on responses that support secure attachments.

taken from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_parenting
[/quote]

Well we did those top 8 already and never even knew it was a special parenting style until I joined a different message board. I also use cloth diapers, cloth wipes, cloth napkins, try to buy organic foods (as much as I can afford), get organic farm fresh meat from my parents' farm, and we definitely did as much natural birthing as possible. I was high risk so I had to be in a hospital but I did drug free the first baby, pitocin only for the second, and the 3rd was a c-sec so I had to have an epidural and all sorts of pain relief.

To me, I have a Christian way of being AP. I try to use things as God intended - breasts for feeding my babies, suffering the pains of childbirth because Eve ate the apple, sleeping together (I believe that God intended us to be social and he puts families together), also by using cloth products we are being good stewards - frugal and caring toward the environment, etc etc etc.

Rach,
I love what you say:
"To me, I have a Christian way of being AP"
Really, A/P is another version of 'Natural Parenting' only on a more emotional level. I too cloth diaper, tandem nurse and believe in natural weaning. I co-sleep and wear my kids in slings. I do not do Organics however-- :roll: Really should, just can't always afford store brand--and it's very hard to grow natural crops!

I agree, some women should never have had kids. I see it everyday too--plus I was a product of it with my mother. She was a good mom when it suited her. There were a lot of emotional stresses I endured.

Yeah like have you ever seen a mother that just seems so distant from her child and her childs emotions? I see it quite often here. It's really sad. They are begging for attention all the time and only get it when they are being naughty. I'm not talking about when we are busy because I know we all are and we cannot always do everything for our child as soon as they want us to.

God plans each life. God puts each child with the parent or parents that He wants them with. Each parent has their own personality and strenghts and weaknesses and past experiences that make them the parents they are...which God knew they would be before He gave them children. :)

We all parent differently and we all should because no one has the same child and experiences the same set of circumstances and has the same emotional make up as the next person. I often see Christian mothers making their method of parenting a principle and upholding it as MORE than what it is, which is just a way of parenting, to which they cannot be completely consistent with anyway. :?

The Bible is our best guide. The Holy spirit is our best guide. Prayer and seeking the Lord is the best guide. All the other stuff can be helpful and give us ideas...but in the end we do the best we can. We do the best that we are capable of, and each person is capable of different things. And the key here is God knew that and placed the children where they need to be for His good purposes. He knew parent A would be more strict and parent B more lenient and He worked it all together for good. It is what each child in that family needs even if it doesn't seem so at the time, because we are all sinners and live in a fallen world. So no family is perfect in appearance. No parent is perfect in their practicing of their style of parenting. 8)

I think naming a parenting style is somewhat of a gimmick to help parents feel better. If there is a method and formula you don't feel so lost and out of control. And if some of the theories fit you and are not unscriptural...then good. But in the end. God is our best source. Because no matter what the style or the "name", in the end HE supplies the abilities to do it all. "I am the vine and you are the branches and apart from me you can do nothing." :D

I think that the key is balance. We're basically AP, but we do things because they make sense to us and work for us, not because "Dr. Sears said to." I think that the key is to read material from different sources, pray, use common sense, apply what fits, and throw out the rest.

Examples:

1) We co-sleep because it's warm and nurturing, makes breastfeeding easier, and gets us all a better night's sleep.
2) We breastfeed because it's cheap, easy, nurturing, and healthy for both mother and baby.
3) We cloth diaper because it helps our budget tremendously and has secondary benefits like environment, etc.
4) We homebirth because we're uncomfortable with going to the hospital.
5) We babywear because it's nurturing and helps get the housework done.

But there's not anything inherently salvational about those practices. I parent this way because it makes intuitive sense to me. I do use "gadgets" like my swing, bouncer, playgym, or infant seat to put my daughter in at times. It's not always practice to have her in the sling 24 hours a day.

The bottom line is that we each have to develop our own parenting style. As long as your kids are loved and not abused, they have a full belly, clothes on their back, and you're coping, then your parenting style is working for you.

I agree with Ruth totally!

My dh and I were talking about this a while ago, and we were wondering why does it even have a name??

We believe that we fall in the "Lazy Parent" category. :lol:

Co-sleeping cuz we're too lazy to put the baby back in bed,
Babywearing cuz the baby is happy and quiet and we can get things done,
Breastfeed cuz it's so much easier and cheaper (the health benefits are an added perk!)
Cloth Diaper cuz it saves us thousands of dollars.

heh heh heh.

I agree with what Ruth and Leslie said - although, I must say Leslie is 110% percent right on consulting scripture on parenting after all these are the words of the Lord to us, they are his words of instruction, he is right about EVERYTHING - the proverbs are a source of instruction on the matter - so whatever parenting style is adopted, it should ALWAYS be backed up with scripture and I don't mean scripture bent to suit ourselves, I mean in your face, what the Lord is actually teaching.
We should ALSO be listening to our spirits and where the Holy Spirit is prompting us with our children.

Unfortunately, a lot of the more permissive ideas have crept their way into Christendom - and people have listened to the world on issues to do with discipline and parenting which are completely UnGodly (such as permissive styled parenting).

So it's not really ALWAYS a matter of gleaning one thing from here and one thing from there if it's unsciptual KWIM?

We can't just say what works for us if it's out of line with how the Lord instructs us in scripture KWIM? We had to come to that conclusion over certain ideas which were being promoted to us as parents.

We strongly believe it is scriptual that we are to be the children's GUIDES not the other way around KWIM? (example: the Bible says, Train a child in the way that he should go)

I also have to agree with Leslie and Aussie_mom! We do a lot of the AP type things....we breastfeed, we homebirth, we co-slept for the first 6 months or so, I don't spend much time away from my DD, but we also spank as the Lord commands, we do think about her emotional wellbeing, but we also know that we have to teach her to go to scripture to find answers, not her heart, and to control her emotions, like anger.

I agree that the only bood you really need to read on parenting is the Bible. It's whole, it's perfect, and it says exactly what to do and how to do it. I don't think it's sinful to read other books to see what other's experiences are, but it's not the manual that needs to be followed.

I love the closeness that some of the AP "attributes" provides for our family, but I tend to think it more of God's leading than a parenting style! :-D

Amber

Amber - good on you for saying that the word tell us to smack.
I have found people try and refute this or try and bend the scriptures such as:

Proverbs: 22:15 - Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child - the rod of correction shall drive it from him

and: Proverbs: 23:13 Do not withold correction from a child, for if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. 14 You SHALL beat him with a rod, and deliver his soul from hell.

Etc - etc - this what DH and I base spanking on. You can't refute the word when it suits you IMO and pick and choose the bits and bobs that sits well, because the Bible also says: 2 Timothy 3:16 - ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction for instruction to righteousness.

DH and I certainly will NEVER be listening to the world and their opinions on child rearing.

xox Aussie_mum

Aussie_mom,
I actually had a believer tell me that since the instructions to use the rod were in Proverbs that we don't have to really do it....it's philisophical......I was like....what? Then she went to tell me that the Lord doesn't punish his children anymore..that we only have consequences to our actions. Needless to say, I don't think anybody would enjoy being around her children...I almost shiver just thinking about it. :?

Proverbs 3:11 says: My son, do not despise the LORD's discipline and do not resent his rebuke, 12 because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father [b] the son he delights in.

If he loves me and disciplines me in harsh ways, it's only because he loves me, and if I love my daughter, I will discipline as the Lord commands.

I don't think AP really follows what the Lord teaches when it comes to discipline, but I do think their ideals about bonding and such are important to any child/parent relationship. And anyone who says all parents don't bond or attach to their kids are right...there are people out there who have no idea what a blessing their children are, or are so wrapped up in their own needs that they abuse and neglect their children, but I wouldn't put people who don't AP in that category...those people who abuse and neglect are the people we need to seek out and serve for our Lord...do our best to show them the unconditional love our Lord and Savior has for us, and how he wants them as his own, and he wants them to glorify him with their lives, including parenting.

I like this topic...it's so cool to see what other believers think about parenting! :-D

Amber

Buttercup I so know what you mean, and I highly doubt there are any Mum's here who practice the unGodly versions of AP anyway.

I do know what you mean about neglect and abuse etc too. Hey I grew up in that environment.

I too like this topic! We do need to be attached parents, just GODLY attached parents. :wink:

I don't think AP really follows what the Lord teaches when it comes to discipline

How so?

The one reason I said that AP really doesn't follow the Lord's commands about discipline is: (This is from the AP's Association website) Using natural or logical consequences teaches your child more effectively than punishment.
I believe that when they say punishment, more times than not, they are talking about spanking.

Here is something about spanking from Dr. Sears' website:
Don't spank
As young parents with our first few children, we believed that spanking was appropriate in life- threatening situations, such as toddlers running out into the street. We reasoned it was necessary to make an impression on mind and body that the child would remember to prevent running into the street again. At the time we concluded that safety comes before psychology. But as we learned more about discipline, we realized there are better ways than spanking to handle even danger discipline. We realized toddlers don't remember from one time to the next, even with the "physical impression."

So obviously, there is teaching from AP "leaders" that say not to spank, yet our Lord...the one who knows ALL and gives us the tools to raise our children to glorify him says to spank, or our children will die. His word is higher and means way more to me than any other human teacher...so I spank, and I make sure I am spanking Biblically and with a pure heart focused on the Lord.

Another thing about that...psychology is human made, although it probably has some good aspects, it's dangerous to live life through the eyes of a philosophy of humans....and to say that toddlers don't remember....talk about not giving the child some credit, which is what AP discipline seems to be all about. My DD knew what consequences were/are coming since she was at least 9 months old. And personally I don't think she's a genius or anything...well maybe just a little...LOL :lol:

So that's pretty much what I meant. I do know that not every sinful act is spank worthy, and that some of the other discipline "tactics" are appropriate, but in every situation, not just one way is the right way 100% of the time.

I hope that cleared it up a bit.....:-D

Amber

I am new to this forum, so I read this thread with interest. I guess I am a not an AP Mom, since I did not breastfeed, do not co-sleep, did not baby wear, I do spank. Yet I have kids that happily run to me with arms open everytime I walk in the door. They are loved, hugged and valued. I feel an emotional connection to each of my four kids, and I am hope I am instilling Godly Christian values in each of them.

Proverbs is a book of wisdom. The verses are not promises, they are wisdom. That is why the book of Proverbs needs to be read as a guide for living, but there are exceptions to some of these verses. ( I am not saying it is not the Word of God, it is) I obviously believe in spanking, but I also know it does not work with all children. My oldest son has ADHD and Sensory Intergration Dysfunction. Spanking is a worthless discipline tactic with him. All it does is create rage and make him roll up in a fetal position. With my twins, all I have to do is get the spoon and look at them. Spanking works quite well. My daughter, who is only 20 months, has yet to be spanked. She has not defied or disobeyed me yet. You need to understand each child and know what will work for him/her.

Amber: I understand what you are saying. Let me just share a little bit about gentle discipline. First, a secular AP family isn't likely to discipline in a Godly way because they aren't living for the Lord. As a Christian AP family its a whole other situation; Dr. Sears is a Christian man, and another note-worthy author is Crystal Lutton, who wrote Grace-based Discipline. The Bible absolutely commands us to discipline and chasten our children, but I do not believe we are commanded to spank; allowed to spank? Yes, but not necessarily told to. Personally, I fall in the school of thought that the Rod of Proverbs isn't necessarily referring to an object, but is symbolic of guidance teaching (think of David using the Rod to guide his sheep, or in the 23 Psalm where the rod is referred to as comforting). I realize that others may interpate this differently and that is fine, agree to disagree on that one. Dh and I both came from abusive family situations, so for us spanking brings up too many old wounds; we cannot see it as something that we can do with a pure heart because for us spanking is something that was done to hurt us; anytime I have had the urge to spank it has been out of anger, so I do not believe that it is a good discipline technique for our family. We don't believe that "chastening" has to mean "spanking," just as notspanking does not mean we are permissive.

Gentle Discipline can be done in a Godly way because we are chastening and training our child, just not physically. Spanking is way to chasten, and so is our method of applying consquences; we are still training our child's heart and teaching him self-control. I kind of look it as the way we as Christians don't try to avoid sin just because of the penalty, but because we want to please God and we understand that our sin hurts Him and the people we sin against, y/k?

*You are correct when AP material speaks of punishment as spanking, because that is what our society generally views punishment as.

This is the first I have heard of AP parenting, guess I live a sheltered life..ha ha....I'm curious why you say it is exhusting, is there a schedule or something...I looked at the site but haven't figured that out yet, I breastfeed, all 4 of my kids till about 2 years.....but must say I have different relationships with each one..some are easier than others, and they change depending on the situations..I still feel like I need to continue to work on bonding with them, because they are so busy and independent as they get older....it seems like this is more for just the baby stage???....my dh says you keep trying new things till they move out...ha ha...it seems like some things work for awhile, but not long term....we have a book called "parenting made easy, or simple" something like that, and it's really thick....my dh says if its so easy why is it so thick....ha ha...dd

LOL twinsandmore I can well understand why you didn't co-sleep with twins (another twin mummy here!)

Cristina,

Sorry it's taken so long to post, my Dad killed himself last friday, so this week has been up and down. We finally had his service today, and so I can think about other things again.

I wanted to say how I think it's wise, and I am sure the Lord blesses your decision about not spanking knowing your heart in the matter. I do believe that if you ask, he can change how you look at spanking and also heal the pain you have from your childhood, but I totally agree that if your motive would be anger, it's best to avoid it! So many people do spank in anger, which is totally sinful and damaging to a child! :-D

I also agree that Secular people won't spank Bibically either, and usually the motives behind their spanks are selfish and angry...without the Lord, how can it be any other way?

One of the main reasons I say the Lord commands us to spank is that he says use the rod for one...and really, (as an example) how can time-outs be considered a rod in any shape or form? I understand people think that the Lord used the rod as a symbol, and as you said David using the rod, but when sheep go astray, they use the rod to nudge them or wack them on the behind.......also in Hebrews 12:11 it says: No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it. And again, I don't think every offense is a spank offense, and other methods work well, even different punishments for different kids...as we all know kids are soooooooo different in how the learn and react to everything! ;-)

I am not trying to make a debate or offend anyone. I actually think it's cool how we can share this info with each other see each other's ideas and beliefs...we can always learn something, or gain wisdom....even if we decide to not go with someone else's ideas or beliefs, I think it's still cool to chat! KWIM?

I hope you all have a great night, baby is pushing on my bladder again...gotta go!!!

Blessings,
Amber

Was wondering what you think the rod means in Isaiah 11:4 ?...the rod of his mouth....seems to me it would be the word of the Lord...spare the word of the Lord, (don't teach them the teachings of Jesus) and spoil the children....dd

DD.....first I want to say that maybe we should start a new post about this topic....I feel so bad that we have hijacked this post...even though discipline has to do with APing, in some matters, I feel this is almost getting to a debate-ish type of post, and wouldn't want to interfere with others who want to talk about APing! KWIM?

I will answer your question though....thanks for the question, I love being challenged and get to dive into the specific areas of the Bible and re-evaluate the verses! :-D

In Isaiah 11:4 it talks about the Lord's return, and although, he is talking in a metaphor, it's more about what the non-believers will succumb to. In the other verses we are talking about, it's talking about discipline. Yes, he uses the word Rod, but the context is so important in how we read into verses.

There is a great website....biblegateway.com you can go to pretty much any version or translation, put in a word and see what verses has that word in it. If you put the word rod into it, you will see many verses in Proverbs....and many of them say that the rod is for the backsides of fools. To me, it's hard to see how you can make that symbolic...

Please remember though, these are my beliefs in what the Lord says. These are not salvation issues, and although I believe them to be super important, they do not make a difference whether believing them as one way or another will get me into heaven.....I do believe that they are important in the faith building of my children...I want them in heaven with me....but the Lord already knows their fate, I just try and follow what he says to the best on my knowledge and how I believe he says to do things. He is so graceful and so loving, and he knows our desires for our children. If we truely believe that we are following what the Lord commands, and not just molding the scripture to our philosophies, then he will give us grace for the parts we mess up in. We can keep reading, keep studying, keep asking questions, keep bouncing ideas off each other, and of course, keep bringing these issues before the Lord. KWIM?

If we were to move this to another thread, how would we do that? Or who would we ask to help us do that?

Amber

fwiw. I believe the 'Rod' to be a tool of guiding and not striking. Sheep are skittish animals and if they are struck by their shepherd's rod they will scatter, the shepherd will have no flock. Also David talks about the rod and staff being a comfort to him. I interpret this as meaning God's guidance is a comfort to him. It just makes more sense to me. This is how I interpret the 'rod' verses. I will, however, start a new thread for the spanking debate.

http://christian-mommies.com/forumsv3/viewtopic.php?p=53140#53140

Here is a link for the new thread discussing the spanking issue. Since this is a topic about ap and not about spanking specifically, if you wish to discuss the spanking issue please continue to do it on the other thread.
Thanks and happy debating!

Very well put Christina...I agree whole-heartedly. The "rod" comes in many forms that does not have to include physical punishment to be effective and Godly. (I'm not anit-spank if used in a non-angry setting, but we simply choose not to do so and to use other methods :D )

I also agree that the post regarding balance is very good...I think you have to give and take from different parenting styles and make a style all your own so that you can parent as stress-free and patient as possible that fits your child's needs, personalities of all in the family, and lifestyle. For instance, I am 100 percent for breast feeding...however, I can't physically produce milk, so we don't do it...and my hat is off to anyone who can do the cloth diapers! I simply know that with our on the go lifestyle and my squeamish stomach...it won't ever be able to happen! :lol: I snugglied kiddos as long as they'd let me and my back would let me! and we do co-sleep the first 6 months to a year with our kids though and find the cuddle time invaluable in bonding for us specifically and we try to be healthy in our diets and buy organic when we can find and afford it.....I guess you could name it the bits and pieces parenting style!

I personally think my eclectic parenting style is influenced from many camps of logic and that one style is not better than any other style if it allows you to be a more patient, loving, Godly, guiding source of wisdom for your family! That's the beauty of this site...you hear all of the drawbacks and strengths of different beliefs and styles of parenting and being a family and know that although we may not all agree on many things, we are all united in being the most Godly and supportive parents and wives that we can. :D

Here is something about spanking from Dr. Sears' website:
Don't spank
As young parents with our first few children, we believed that spanking was appropriate in life- threatening situations, such as toddlers running out into the street. We reasoned it was necessary to make an impression on mind and body that the child would remember to prevent running into the street again. At the time we concluded that safety comes before psychology. But as we learned more about discipline, we realized there are better ways than spanking to handle even danger discipline. We realized toddlers don't remember from one time to the next, even with the "physical impression."

LOL he doesn't know my toddlers! Or maybe his just weren't very... um... quick?

To me, I have a Christian way of being AP. I try to use things as God intended - breasts for feeding my babies, suffering the pains of childbirth because Eve ate the apple, sleeping together (I believe that God intended us to be social and he puts families together), also by using cloth products we are being good stewards - frugal and caring toward the environment, etc etc etc.

FWIW, we no longer have to be punished by suffering through childbirth (for eating the forbidden fruit) because Jesus came and died on the cross for ALL our sins. So there is no need for women to do labour without pain meds. Just like men do not have to work themselves to the bone to provide for their families anymore. They don't have to grow their own crops, have their own livestock etc... Also most women are working outside the home now too. So why do we have to work outside the home to provide money for things when it's the mans job? The mans job is nowhere near as hard as it used to be. So why should our job of having a baby be worse? We are doing 1/2 the mans job as well as our own job of raising kids and being housewife and yet are still expected to go through labour without any pain medication. Hardly seems fair to me.......

As for breastfeeding... well, yeah he gave us breasts to breastfeed but he didn't exactly plan that very well because neither us nor baby just instinctively knows how to bf like animals do.

As for breastfeeding... well, yeah he gave us breasts to breastfeed but he didn't exactly plan that very well because neither us nor baby just instinctively knows how to bf like animals do.

:( We've been down a similar road before, Renée. God is perfect, so your statement is so untrue.