Ugh! I had really hoped I wouldn't be back in this forum....at least not for this reason. I mean I've had two kids, I pretty much thought I had the attitudes down and we're finished with the potty training phases. But no! DS has a talking back problem. I mean BAD!

I never, not once, put up with this behavior. I have always nipped it in the bud so to speak. DH and I have reprimanded him each and every time he has done this. His most famous line when you ask him to do something that he doesn't want to do (ie: pick toys up or use the bathroom before going somewhere) is "I can't!!!" I have no idea why he thinks telling us that is going to get him out of it. But he is also notoriously known for saying, "No!" and even mocking us at times. We've used whatever punishment that seemed to working at the time and then varied it up depending on the circumstances. But now after months of being relentless and persistant with our forms of punishment, I am asking for help. It's not because I am throwing in the towel or whatever but because I need Godly advice. Why is it after all this time that he is still acting out even though we've done everything right?

We've explained that God commands us to obey our parents and to be kind to others. We've demonstrated how to be kind to others. His sister doesn't talk back nor try to be mean. He isn't around other children that are behaving this way. I just don't understand it. Is this just a phase that we have to work through because of his age? Do you think it has something to do with his gender? I need fresh ideas! Bring 'em on!!

First of all, you are most definitely not alone. I think every child goes through this at one time or another, and it lasts longer for some kids. I think too (speaking from my personal experience) there is just a difference between boys and girls and how they handle this kind of stuff. My ds will carry on bad behaviors much longer than dd. She seems more emotionally affected by discipline than him. You can tell her not to do something and she will cry because she is upset that she did something wrong. Ds on the other hand, not so much. He takes it in stride much more than she. Either that or he has a tantrum and yells or cries because he is angry. Sometimes the only thing that works is a swat to the rear. My ds goes through windows of time where this kind of thing is more of an issue than others. Just keep being consistent. Maybe have him repeat back the expectations when he disobeys (if you are not doing that already). If I think of anything else specific to suggest, I'll let you know.

Thanks Kim! Yes, I am starting to think that there really is something to the gender differences and how they relate to discipline. He does not get his feelings hurt when he gets in trouble. He is rather deviant. We do spank also when it gets to a certain point. I always try to talk to him and get him to repeat the correct way to say something. We are trying to teach him to say "yes ma'am, no ma'am, yes sir, no sir" instead of just "no" or "I can't."

Ugh! I had really hoped I wouldn't be back in this forum....at least not for this reason. I mean I've had two kids, I pretty much thought I had the attitudes down and we're finished with the potty training phases. But no! DS has a talking back problem. I mean BAD!

I never, not once, put up with this behavior. I have always nipped it in the bud so to speak. DH and I have reprimanded him each and every time he has done this. His most famous line when you ask him to do something that he doesn't want to do (ie: pick toys up or use the bathroom before going somewhere) is "I can't!!!" I have no idea why he thinks telling us that is going to get him out of it. But he is also notoriously known for saying, "No!" and even mocking us at times. We've used whatever punishment that seemed to working at the time and then varied it up depending on the circumstances. But now after months of being relentless and persistant with our forms of punishment, I am asking for help. It's not because I am throwing in the towel or whatever but because I need Godly advice. Why is it after all this time that he is still acting out even though we've done everything right?

We've explained that God commands us to obey our parents and to be kind to others. We've demonstrated how to be kind to others. His sister doesn't talk back nor try to be mean. He isn't around other children that are behaving this way. I just don't understand it. Is this just a phase that we have to work through because of his age? Do you think it has something to do with his gender? I need fresh ideas! Bring 'em on!!

One thing to remember, is that with very young children, even when you're consistent, they're going to need alot of repetition in order to remember. In the heat of the moment, they're going to forget how to respond respectfully because they still lack self control. As they learn self control, they'll get better at this. Just remember that you're not failing even if it seems like you're repeating yourself alot on this. Sometimes it takes time and patience.

In order to give you a better answer, how old is he?

The reason I ask, is that I handle that situation differently between my kids, based on their age and development, just like I'd handle it differently still if I had an older child. Mine are almost 6 and almost 3 for reference.

Anyway, every family handles things differently, but in our family, I wouldn't quite consider saying "I can't!" to be back talking. Saying "I can't" is more likely to be an attempt at telling you he doesn't "want" to do XYZ. There could be many reasons for not wanting to do what you ask, from just not wanting to, all the way to feeling tired. Both of my sons have said this once in awhile, and how we've always handled it, is to get down on their level, and talk about it. We'll say something like "I know you can do this. Are you trying to tell me you don't want to do this?" I'll usually get a yes, and sometimes a reason, like "I'm tired" but not always. It usually diffuses things the best, to then say something like "I understand you don't want to do what I ask. I don't want to do all the things I need to do sometimes either. However, you still need to do it, just like I still need to sweep the kitchen floor even when I don't want to. Would you like some help?" Sometimes you just don't have a free hand to help, but it's nice to offer when you can, because it just makes things go much smoother, and really helps the kiddos understand that you really do understand what they're feeling.

But he is also notoriously known for saying, "No!" This we definitely consider backtalking in our house :) With an older child, I'd handle it differently than with a younger child. With a younger child, I'd probably stop him in his tracks, and get down on his level and calmly say something like:

"I understand it's not fun to do what you're told, but saying "no" to mommy like that is disrespectful. You may not talk to me like that. (I'd say that firmly.) You need to apologize and try this again." If I heard an "I'm sorry momma." I'd tell him that next time, it would be ok to tell me he didn't want to do XYZ, but that he still needed to obey respectfully anyway and then I'd supervise that he was doing XYZ. We've found that it's important to let the kids explain to us that they really don't want to do XYZ for whatever reason, but they can only do that in a respectful manner. If they can't say it respectfully, then it shouldn't be coming out of their mouths. Whining isn't respectful in our house, lol.

If I got another "NO!", then they'd get immediately removed to time out. We do one minute per year of age, but they're not allowed out until they apologize, we talk about a better way they could've expressed their feelings, and they go do what we asked in the first place. With both of my boys, they've had a couple of times where they went like 30-40 minutes (with breaks where I'm coming every few minutes to ask them if they're ready to come out of time out). But you know, once they realize they're not getting out to play until they change their attitude, apologize and obey like they were asked to, they learn really quickly. With such short attention spans, once they spend a longer time or 2 in time out, they aren't likely to want to do that again. Because you put them in charge of when they come out of time out (when they change their attitude, apologize, and obey) you're effectively teaching them how to control themselves, instead of just punishing them when they don't.

and even mocking us at times This would REALLY make me angry. I "think" though, that mocking is learned behavior. TV, seeing someone else do it...that kind of thing. I think that in this case, I'd be looking to see where the behavior had been seen before. If the child was old enough, you could ask them where they first saw someone do that. I think I'd be looking at this more as a chance to teach the child why not to act like this...why it's wrong, IYKWIM instead of just punishing for it.

I have to say though, that I "think" the child would physically be in time out before they even knew what happened here. We'd have a short discussion on what they'd done wrong and why it was wrong. If they understood what they'd done, then they'd spend some time in time out like I mentioned above and go through those steps. I'd guess though, that the first couple of times a child does this, that they don't understand what exactly they did wrong. I don't "think" that a very young child can understand why it's offensive and disrespectful yet. They probably know it bugs people, but they don't understand why. For that reason, you might need to be more gentle with a very young child in this area and work towards teaching them that behavior isn't ever acceptable while expecting they'll maybe have trouble remembering not to do it. Now with an older child, who can actually understand why mocking is disrespectful it's a whole different story.

"yes ma'am, no ma'am, yes sir, no sir" instead of just "no" or "I can't." We taught our boys this very thing. We found it easiest to teach them this by teaching them to say "Yes Ma'am" etc. to requests that they actually want to say yes to first, like:

"Do you want a popsicle?" Yes Ma'am!

"Do you want to play outside?" Yes Sir!

"Do you want to eat worms for breakfast?No Sir! he... he... lol...

We taught "Yes Ma'am" etc. as the correct response to questions where they'd want to answer yes or no to anyway, and then it's much easier for them to say "Yes Ma'am" etc. to things they might not want to say it to simply because it's habit....we're sneaky, LOL.

Hugs Becca you are being consistent and seem really on the right path, just remember it takes time to get through to kids. They like to test the boundries sometimes over and over depending on the personality of the child. I have my great listeners, hate getting into trouble, try to do as told than I have my strong willed child that needs DAILY reminding of the proper behavior expected of him.

You have received wonderful advice and i have nothing to add. Just remember as you told me you are a wonderful mom Becca. You are doing it right, and trying new things is a good idea. Someday very soon we will all be missing our boundry testers and maybe just maybe remember them the most, he he.

love ya girl. And its good you posted this, its nice to be specific when I pray for you and your family, more personal and really to God's ears.

All great advice. Just remember that kids have to test the waters because knowing that mom and dad will be consistent keeps them feeling secure. Some are just more strong willed when it comes to it than others. I think you are doing a great job. Hang in there.

Yep, he's testing the waters. Be consistent. I know you said you have been, but just keep doing so. Do NOT back down.

You could try a taste of vinegar or hot sauce on the tongue. Relating between the nasty/bitter taste and the nasty/bitter words that are coming from his mouth. I have used the vinegar with my girl when she got a snippy kind of attitude (in general, not necessarily toward me, just for reference). She only had it twice. She would get one warning that she had a bad tone and needed to change it next time she spoke, or she would get vinegar to remind her of that nastiness that is in her heart. Like I said, she only had it twice. So, that deemed effective for her.

My boys, I don't remember them doing that so much at the same age. They were getting more into the lying around age 4/5. For which I would try the same methods, honestly.

I'd operate much along the lines of what mo2b1d suggested.
When he responds negatively you promptly and firmly deal with it. Get on his level, hold his hands or face in your hands to be sure he is looking at you, in the eye/face, paying attention and in your stern but gentle voice "No, you will not speak to me in that manner, the appropriate response is 'yes ma'am', now try again" If he does not, then you tell him that is a matter of disobedience and will be disciplined for such (would warrant a spanking session here). Then you go back, again, to deal with the original issue. Repeat ad nauseum. ;) My 3 yr old will put up a fight at times, needing 4 or 5 rounds. That has happened VERY rarely. That long session generally concretes the matter quite well.

From then on, one warning to correct the tone. My 3 yr old only gets a raised eyebrow from me and he knows what to fix. Or I will say 'excuse me?' He's really picked up on things/figured it out here recently. :)

Just hang in there, Becca. Don't be afraid to be the parent. You'll get through this.

Thanks so much for your advice and encouraging words, ladies! Mo, you are so helpful as always! I will re-read through these when I get a chance. But I wanted you to know that I appreciate the responses. I know the main thing I need to focus on is love right now. I figure the more positive I am with DS, the better, and it will radiate through other things as well. I have a tendency to get caught up in the moment and let stress take over. I don't want to get to that point. I want to continue disciplining in love.

Tara, I think we were posting at the same time. TY for your post too! I've missed seeing you on here lately! :)

My 3 yr old only gets a raised eyebrow from me and he knows what to fix. Or I will say 'excuse me?' He's really picked up on things/figured it out here recently. :)
Isn't "the look" awsome! LOL I just looked over at my almost 6 year old, who had his finger up his nose, and he immediately said "Sorry." and stopped doing that. When he's said something even remotely disrespectful, you give him the look, and he apologizes and re-states what he was saying.

I think it has to do with consistency and teaching them what the Bible says and how God wants us to act. They legitimately want to do what's right, and are disappointed in themselves when they don't.

ALL of my kids know the "look"!!! Seems I got it immediately upon giving birth to my first!!! I remember my moms....my sister says I have the same look!

Tehe!!! I almost enjoy giving it sometimes. :-D

We have four boys, Becca, and, yes, they're different. However, my daughter was every bit as strong willed (even more so) than a couple of her brothers.

Some random thoughts: To me, "I can't" sounds sort of like "I won't" unless you're giving him some impossible task to accomplish (which I'm sure you're not :-D). Hesitating, procrastinating, moving slow, etc. is all disobedience. I would even say that getting sidetracked on the way to obedience is disobedience. Remember, you are the mom and you get to call the shots. You just have to be very clear in your head as to what you really want. I would also suggest that whatever consequence you choose, make it memorable, so that your little guy would rather choose obedience than disobedience. :-D Also, when he does obey, make a huge deal out of it so he knows you're pleased with him.