Ok, I absolutely love that Madison is a cuddly baby. Love it! However, she is not happy unless someone is holding her. There's maybe 15 to 20 minutes during the day where she will be content being by herself, but if she's not sleeping, she has to be held.

So, this question is for those other moms who have or have had clingy babies: how do/did you break your baby of having to be held...constantly?

I just put mine down and say 'deal with it' :roll:
Yeah, they fuss for a bit, but oh well. They'll get over it. I have other things to do. I simply cannot hold/cuddle/coddle a baby all day. They have to learn right away that it won't happen.

Sorry, no real advice. I just put them down and walk away. Not really caring if they fuss a bit. *shrug*

She may grow out of it. Hannah was like that at first but now I can set her down in her bouncer and swing while I do work. A lot of the time, though, I don't mind nursing and holding her a lot, it gives me an excuse to rest and cuddle her or spend guilt free time on the computer.

Does Maddi like toys? Like I said, swing or bouncer for Hannah or she also likes her play gym.

The swing and the bouncer both worked well for Sam! The swing a little better b/c it was guarenteed she'd fall asleep! But...every baby is different...

I have a Madison as well! :) When she was younger she was pretty stuck to me...(it got to the point where even her grandparents holding her would make her scream, and sometimes even Daddy!) but what I would do, was swaddle her and put her in the swing or something like that...that way she felt cozy and was being rocked at the same time...it worked very well!

She's now very independant and I miss her being so stuck to me...so cherish it...there will come a time that she won't want to be so close...

Tara I agree with you!

Beck I am lucky in that Matilda usually only has her cuddle me or else fits during the day - - what I have begun doing is insisting she naps in her crib rather than in my vacinity - it sounds so mean I know... but what I found was - she would call out to me to be picked up (call out - not cry) and then force her eyes open to stay awake to be part of the action.

She does call out to me from the cot and try and stop herself from sleeping in the day - so I just leave her for a while... trying to build up her tolerance to cot napping in the day. Rather than only napping in her rocker etc and trying to persuade me to carry her around LOL

I understand this is a far cry from nighttime cuddle terrors though.

She sleeps in her cot at night fine, just not in the day (so opposite).

The other thing you could try is warming her blanket in a clothes dryer and swaddling her in it and putting her down like that.
Also soothing sounds from a baby CD with womb noises can help.

I also agree with the rocker thing etc or even a mobile. Paris was a very cry/colic baby (which is another different issue) and we found the mobile worked wonders.

Not sure if this helps, probably not but - it;s just really hard to give uselful advice to someone like you who already has a child and is in the know already ... thinking of you anyway :D

xo AM

I'm feeling all of you. Bri was VERY colicky and I had no problem just letting him cry it out. I knew it was colic and there wasn't a thing I could do.
Now, with patrick, my heart's different. we're 99.9 percent sure it's colic with him too, but since the surgery, I've held him 24/7. I even wear him to go to the potty! Brian was getting frustrated with it, as I guess you can assume where our sex life has went, :-) but I can't put him down. I mean , if I do, he'll cry for say an hour at the most and then go to sleep or self occupy, but I've worked up that "he'll die if he cries" thing that most parents of "sick" babies tend to do.
Well, last night, I had scouts, so brian had the babies, when I got home, Patrick was in his carrier sleeping. HOW DID HE DO THAT? well, he fed him, changed him, there was nothing wrong, so he let him cry. and darn it, that little thing didn't die! he went to sleep. so brian told me to just let him cry today.
I have serious back problems from a major car accident, and don't need to wear him as much as I do, so Brian put his foot down last night. I'll still hold him some, but Daddy says no more day long holding. Once we get this conquered, we will start with him sleeping on his own at night'

I guess I stand in a totally different camp than all of you who have posted in response so far! (so no offense please! ) I don't believe in the "letting your child cry it out" theory. I too had a little one who refused to be put down, wouldn't use a swing or bouncer, etc.....even refused the crib entirely....
We always responded to his cries at once and we held him and enjoyed every moment...he's two now and is still a cuddler and we love that! It is hard, I realize, but I look at it that "they're only little for a little while and you'll crave those clingy times because they grow up soooo soon!"
My back ground is in child/social services and mental health...I've seen too much and I saw children constantly when I was working who cried forever and were never responded too (this is OBVIOUSLY not what you guys do! ) But it sticks with me and the only thing that gave me peace at night to sleep when I worried about all of those kids crying out and no one going to them...was that I could make sure mine knew that I would always resond to them and be there no matter how much of an inconvenience it was to me. I also stand on the side of scientific research that errors on caution that children under a year left to cry can and do suffer emotional trauma that can hinder their development in later years and keep them from trusting/developing stable relationships/ and feeling deep abandonment issues. Once again, this was my opinion on the research presented and studied in my field...not out to criticize anyone because I know the "cry it out" theory is very popular.
Here is a quote I heard that might change your mind on the crying and help make you a little more thankful for it in those difficult moments....a lady who visits orphanages and has adopted herself overseas said that the orphanges in the baby area are deathly silent a majority of the time...simply becasue the little ones have given up crying out for someone to come to thier aid emotinally or physically since there just isn't enough time or workers to hold them and love them and still get all their work done....after 6 months of having her first adopted child in her home, she said she wept when he cried for the first time! She knew that he finally realized that someone was there for him and would answer him and be there to meet his needs! She said the crying is a gift that you are doing a good job parenting and letting your child know that they are loved and will be responded too. (granted, this is the crying for need and reasurrance that comes with every child under 2 years...not the I've come into my two and feeling especially on the path of terror today tantrum cries! Nothing pretty about that! :lol: )

I agree with you too, breekykc2. I would have to respectfully disagree with what others have said on here also. I don't believe in the cry it out theory either. I've read information that says constant prolonged crying can actually harm a baby's developing brain.

The reason why a baby goes to sleep after crying is that they feel abandoned and they have to conserve their energy. Yes, I've left my daughter to cry some and I consistently have felt wrong about it. God designed the blood flow to my breasts to increase and for me to desire to pick my child up and comfort her and nurse her. I want her to know and trust that I will be there to meet her needs. In my opinion, that and only that will make her into a secure little girl that is not hanging on mommy constantly and is able to eventually know who she is and make her way in the world on her own someday.

She doesn't cry very much anymore. And it's logical--why should she? I try to meet her needs at her first little whimper, so that she doesn't need to get into an all out howl everytime she needs something. I don't want to teach her that the only way to get what she needs is by hard, desperate screaming. Neither my husband nor I have a high tolerance for baby's screaming. Therefore we find it more pleasant to create an environment where she doesn't have to always cry to get what she needs. We co-sleep at night and at the slightest little noise from her I'm awake. I latch her on and we stay laying down and she eats contently. She has her own bed and she rarely sleeps there other than short naps.

My husband loves the arrangement because he sleeps through whatever happens.

Anyway, that's my opinion. I've tried letting her cry and this method is not for me. Plus, part of the time when I've left her to cry, I found that she was crying because she had a wet diaper. (And I had just changed her recently usually, she goes through them fast)

I would encourage anyone who's interested to read Dr. William Sears' book called, "The Baby Sleep Book." It discusses this issue and offers an alternative,"the fade away" sleep method, where you still get them to sleep in their own bed, but not by using long bouts of crying alone.

I do not believe what I practice is "cry it out".
My babies do not cry long. If they are really upset after a couple of minutes, I will go tend to them. Let him nurse again at which time he drifts right off to sleep and I can go put him down. Apparently he just didn't reach that point the first time I tried to put him down, KWIM?
Not that he was still hungry, just hadn't 'given up' yet.
Anywho...
Putting my baby in the other room to settle down on his own is not the same as CIO in my opinion.
I do not let my child cry for hours on end. It's a very brief period. If I held my kid every time he whined at me, I'd never get anything done. I'd not be able to do anything with my other children. And the baby would never sleep well during the day. He doesn't sleep as well in my arms. Yes, he will nurse and fall asleep, but never for long and rarely seems refreshed after doing so. If I put him to bed, he fusses for a few minutes then realizes how tired he is and that I am not going to coddle him. He lies down and goes to sleep for a NICE nap and is a happy, refreshed baby when he wakes. At which time he barely makes a peep and I or one of the boys rush in to get him. And he smiles and giggles back :)

Gotta agree with you Tara. Children do have a will of their own. Yep, they know that you will come pick them up.

Love you all, but it is so much different once you have more than one child. I never let my lil' ones cry for more that 15 min's. It never goes that long.

You are the parents, you have to do what you feel is right for your children... plain & simple. I will say it over & over. We all have our own opinions & that is wonderful.!

Hey about the crying it out thing. I would like opinions or suggestions on what my dh and i are doing.

My baby always cries herself to sleep. Like 90% of the time. So when she shows signs of being tired we put her in her crib, and if she is still crying 7-10 minutes later we will go check on her and pick her up to calm her down. Usually she is asleep within 5 minutes of starting to cry though. Do you think this could hurt her, make her think we don't care enough to hold her while she goes to sleep? The thing is she still cries until she goes to sleep while we hold her too. Is that normal? It has been working for us so far but we don't want to neglect her either.

I'm sorry. I should have clarified my view a little better. Sometimes, I can nurse her, rock her, pat her, and finally in the end she has to fuss for two minutes to settle herself. It's basically prolonged bouts of crying where she feels abandoned that I'm against. Often when I leave the house on my way to go somewhere she fusses in her car seat. It's not practical to be late to everything. Dr. Sears in his book says that there's a difference between CIO and CIOA. (Cry it out alone) Sometimes, babies will cry. We can let them cry in our arms or we can be nearby and talk softly to them and reassure them. Or we can leave the room temporarily and come back in a little bit if they remain upset.

And one thing that I think everyone would agree with me on is that it's much better to leave a child to cry than to get impatient and shake the baby.

Anyway, it's not my desire to start a debate and I hope that I was not unkind in my comments. I read my post over and over to make sure that there was nothing that would be taken wrongly and that I clarified that I was merely expressing my own opinion. Everyone has their own views and everyone's kids are different. Go with your God given instincts and pray to the Lord for wisdom. Only you know your own child! God bless you lovely ladies! :)

Love you Ruth.. you are such a sweet soul! You are totally right for having your own opinion.. you did not offend me.

Moms it does get easier. They will get into a routine, as will you. You will learn to understand your baby and her actions & attitudes & she will learn to understand you. It comes with time & patience.

Thanks Nici! :) I totally agree, it does get easier. Hannah's way easier now than when she was newborn. Definitely into more of a routine and a lot happier baby than she was then.

What I practice is NOT cry it out either. That's the trouble when making any comment about anything to do with self comforting people always assume this horrible picture of a baby screaming it's face off in the cot (I totally knew where Tara was coming from on this one).

And dears, believe me, I am not saying these comments because I was offended or threatened, or felt under attack. It's extremely healthy to hear A LOT of opinions because it can create many alternatives and gives a mother the ability to choose what is right for she and her child, what she feels comfortable with and led to do - and what also suits her babies temprement. A combination of parenting styles is also handy to use.

I knew where Tara was coming from in her post too! It's not actually about being a "meanie" and ignoring a child's needs - the fact is, there ARE adjustments a baby makes out of the womb and like Ruth was saying, sometimes they do gripe and then settle down after a few mins.
What I do is "see" what Matilda will do rather than immediate running over to the cot and picking her up - it is MY belief (my belief, I stress, I am not telling anyone else to believe this!!) that doing so can interfere with a child;s ability to self settle - the baby may be making a gripe because it's having a dream, or just half awake making a sound etc. There have been many times Matilda has made an odd sound and I have gone in assuming she's hungry and found her fast asleep. I am NOT referring to screaming and deep distress! I really don't know of many parents who actually practice that kind of thing - in fact I don't know any bar one and I find her opinions distasteful and whoever it was that said that kind of thing causes problems IS RIGHT.

My comments about teaching Matilda tolerance to her cot were not about putting her in the room and letting her scream - although when Paris was a baby and she had colic, there were times when I DID leave her to cry because like someone else said - there is NOTHING you can do, and sometimes you need to get away from that constant screaming and like Ruth said, better you do that than harm the baby out of frustration.

There is a time and a place for things like that.

Yes I so agree with Ruth on staying on top of a babies needs, and saying you leave a baby to get over it, or in my case build up cot tolerance is not about leaving baby to scream, it's more about practicality - a baby does need to fit into a family, not become the centre of it.

DH and I strongly believe a child is a welcome member of a family NOT the centre of it - so if there are small actions such as building up Matilda's cot tolerance, which enable me to spend time with DH and with the other children - and I does not mean, we allow her to scream - it means we meet her needs and at the same time take action to blend her into the family.
I cannot carry Matilda round the house all day, just as with twin babies I could not carry them around the house all day. So if she has to gripe a little (not scream frantically as some have pictured) then she has to gripe a little.

Baby's do settle down - but there are THINGS mothers can do to help their transition into life outside the womb.

And my cot tolerance thing is WORKING! DH and I were able to do our Bible study last night and spend quality time with the older children without me having to carry Matilda around, as she was sound asleep in her cot, as appropriate - instead of being carried all through the house and sleeping that way, or out here keeping herself awake which is just as unhealthy for her developing brain as anything.

It's always easy to take the extreme view on anything, and when people hear the words "self comfort" or "sort it out" (which is the same thing) they OFTEN imagine the wrong thing based on what some extreme people do but I think that is something that everyone does when there are opinions which differ to their own KWIM?

My baby is extremely loved, extremely content, putting on weight, adored, her needs are met but a little learning to help her adjust to outside life - goes a long way.

I mean with twins, I HAD NO CHOICE but to do these kinds of things. I had no help, I was alone in the house with two NBs... so if anyone feels the need to chastise me or become angry with my opinions - which they have EVERY right to do of course, please - walk a mile in my shoes. now with 3 the issues remain the same.

Hey about the crying it out thing. I would like opinions or suggestions on what my dh and i are doing.

My baby always cries herself to sleep. Like 90% of the time. So when she shows signs of being tired we put her in her crib, and if she is still crying 7-10 minutes later we will go check on her and pick her up to calm her down. Usually she is asleep within 5 minutes of starting to cry though. Do you think this could hurt her, make her think we don't care enough to hold her while she goes to sleep? The thing is she still cries until she goes to sleep while we hold her too. Is that normal? It has been working for us so far but we don't want to neglect her either.

I don't think what you're doing will hurt her. Sounds like what we do at times. Those other times when baby has nursed WELL (plus some probably LOL) and just hasn't crashed. He's just sooo tired, ready for his *bed* I'll go put him in there, within minutes he's out. I've done the same thing with all of my kids and they all seem very well adjusted to me. I've never had problems with them waking during the night, as I often hear from folks with kids ages 3-5 or whatever. Never any of that stuff. Don't know if there's a connection, but, wanted to note it anywho. No trauma is evident anyway hehe

Cheeseburger - I think you are fine too... not sure why, some kids can just be that way. Other Mum's have certainly told me of the same experience with their kids.

I think some of the Mums were really referring to letting the child going beserk with crying, not just crying. It could be just his way of self comforting. I found with my first DD, picking her up to comfort her would actually enrage her more and leaving her alone was best, if I interrupted her little bed time grizzle, I kid you not she'd arch her back and scream at me. She'd nod off to (ugg that is once she grew out of the colic) once I left her alone (checking on her of course!) She;d also become enraged if I swaddled her. I think that was her way of dealing with the day to be honest (all the processing of new sites, sounds, tastes touches)

I second what Tara said, we don't have sleep issues here either with kids.
My kids are also very happy well adjusted kids and DH and I always get remarks on just how happy they are.

WOW! Quite a lot of discussion on this. It is such a touchy area I think because it is so frustrating. Mine are all OLDER now, the youngest being 11, but the oldest and the youngest were demanding high needs babies.

I was not saved with the first one and we were not using biblical principles in anyway...and I held him ALL the time.( not that it is unbiblical to hold a baby) He literally slept on my chest or my husband's for most of his first 6 months. I am not recommending it, but it is what we did. Then I was pregnant with baby #2. I was also working 3 12 hour night shifts a week back then. My oldest wouldn't sleep more than an hour in his bed and wake up crying ....it was killing me! I was pregnant tired, and I worked night shift, and I was awake every hour with a toddler!

I was driving down the road and heard the news that the US had driven Iraq out of Kuwait and thought, "Good maybe this is the end of the world. I am so tired." I knew I had to do something. So we decided to teach our eldest how to comfort himself to sleep. It was not easy. But I had done the other way and it seemed that I had not done him any favors. He hadn't learned how to put himself to sleep if he briefly awoke in the night. One job as a parent is to help our children be self sufficient. NOW obviously babies are not that, but still they too must learn certain self sufficiencies; and self comfort is a good thing to learn. We never let him fuss for more than 15 minutes and he was 18 months at this point! It took three days and he did learn! He started sleeping through the night. He would awake, but he would put himself back to sleep quickly.

I think each must do what they must! You have to survive it! And high need babies are difficult at times. With the others we tried a more balanced approach. Lots of cuddling and holding, but put them down sleepy, not asleep, when they hit around 9 months of age. And I used a sling for the youngest as he seemed to need a lot of holding throughout the day. But I also employed the swing, when it would work, when I HAD to make dinner or tend to another child. BALANCE is the key I think anyway. Thanks for taking me back girls! Hard to believe those days are over! Enjoy them! :lol:

Thanks so much for all the advice and suggestions. Swaddling Maddie really seems to help. I've tried the swing and bouncer and those work off and on...depends on her mood. :)

To weigh in on the debate, I think Ruth said it best...

Everyone has their own views and everyone's kids are different. Go with your God given instincts and pray to the Lord for wisdom. Only you know your own child!

When it comes to parenting, I've discovered that there's not only one way of doing things. God made all of us different, so there will be different ways to reach the same result. I think you've got to do what works for you (and what keeps you sane :wink:).

[amenamen] A hearty [amenamen] to that dear sister! :lol: [girlsmiley]

too true Ruth, Beck and leslie!

Leslie you put the situation beautifully, perhaps with a lot lession emotion involved than I did :oops: (feeling like a bit if a peanut now after reading Leslies more wisely worded post, pls bare with me... I am still a work in progress!) - perhaps that comes from the wisdom of a mother "looking back" in that BTDT sense. Go sister go!

xox AM