anyone hold to courtship?

[luvmy4sons]

We have raised our sons to be courtship minded. No dating around. The oldest is just now 17. So we haven't really had to deal with any issues yet. We home school and most everyone in our church does. Most hold to courtship beliefs as well. But up to this point no son has expressed any interest in it. Does anyone out there hold to this philosophy? Has anyone treaded these waters yet?

My oldest is asking to "get to know" a girl at church. For us this means strictly having her here involved in family activities and he there in her family activities. No alone time. He is agreeable to this at this point. But from a courtship mind set he is really way too young to even consider it. He can't support a wife...not done with his education. But I know that at this age I can't...well anyway just wondering if any has gotten through this and can share how they worked it out? Anyone?

[luvmy4sons]

Am I alone in this? Surely not! Does anyone hold to a courtship mind set? Am I speaking a foreign language here? Surely not! Cmon ladies. Let me hear you!

[Ashlee]

I do! But my kids are 3 and 9 months so I really don't have any advice, sorry. :)

[Godzgirl]

I haven't been in that same boat as well. My daughter is going to be 3 and my son is 5 months!

[JeanineAnne]

Leslie, we support and practice courtship in our house as well, but unfortunately our oldest is only 9 :(

I will share a story of a family in our church whose daughter just graduated from high school and they practice courtship. Another boy her age has expressed interest and they do allow family activities and encourage both families being totally together for these outings. They trust their children have been in prayer and want to not belittle what God may have put on their hearts. Both families feel that by observation, they too will grasp a feel for God's will. I know this daughter's mom and dad have agreed to allow her to get to know him and his family better, but also are encouraging the children to take it slow.

In the meantime, these two families have connected and become great friends. I feel if both families are participating and praying God's will will be done.

hugs to you!

[imported_rachel]

We hope to, if and when :)

[breezykc2]

Okay, I don't have any personal exerience...but grew up in a Christian home and school and many of my friends were held to courtship...I don't know about it first hand...but the friends I was around did not like the practice on the majority, there were a few who were fine with it though. They always told me that they wished they could just get to know people and see what worked well with different personalities without having to feel like the first person they picked to be with they were stuck with.....at least that's how it worked with them....they had to choose a person they wanted to be with forever in their mind without dating/courting first of any others. They said there was so much pressure it kept them from ever wanting to attempt it many times and for others made them angry and totaly go over the other end of things when they left from one nasty date to another just trying to rebel. A once choice thing.
My experience was better I think, I was allowed to date....however, we got one date alone a month during the day and then had group friend dates and family time anytime at either household (the first date and month of dates had to be family oriented and if all was going well, then it went to friends and one alone date)...you could date as many people as you wanted and get to know what you did and didn't like...I know what I found I needed and wanted changed over the years and through experience many attributes really stood out as good and bad with my own personality and weaknesses and strengths that I wouldn't have even thought about earlier. I was allowed to learn in a safe environment and with the support of friends and family what I needed and wanted and how to better handle situations in relationships and breakups and things that go a lot easier with people you trust around to learn with and from.....my personal take is that strict courting is too much and that a tailored dating program is much better, more realistitc, and more benefitical for all involved now and for future happiness and health. Just personal opinion! Not trying to step on toes!

[~Tara~]

we're courtship minded, however, ours are 9 and under

so, I'm not there yet either, sorry

too many kid distractions going on at the moment, I can't even attempt a conversation about it LOL
I'll try to get back to this thread

[luvmy4sons]

Thanks for the replies and insight so far. We just don't know how we are going to proceed. I want my sons to get to know young women, but I don't want them spending time alone to do it. Yet at 17, he has been trained up in the way he should go...and I hope that he will not depart from it. But I don't think laying down the law and forbidding this or that will work.

I want to guide and advise and impart wisdom, hopefully, tell him how we would like to see it go. But in the end at his age he will do as he pleases. We have no reason to think he won't honor our requests to spend time in group settings and with family. That is the way to avoid the physical contact that blinds your eye to the faults of the other and keeps you from making wise choices and gets you into lots of trouble! You can't spend a lot of time alone together and NOT get physical at that age. Can anyone at any age if there is an attraction?

I want to honor and respect his opinioins as well...but this balance act at this age of making your preferences known is so hard..yet not losing them totally with too many strict rules and guidelines. I just pray so hard on it each day. I pray that the training we have done will now bear fruit. I love my son though and will not sacrifice our relationship should he choose a path that is slightly different than the ideal we hope for. There are so many choices to make in this world. I just want to guide him as best as I can without losing him, or having him make poor choices. You know? But in the end God has a plan for my son and He is in control. There just might be things he has to learn through painful experiences and there is nothing I can do about it. But I know that God is good all the time! all the time God is good! And my God sees me. Thanks ladies. :D

[Madre]

Leslie, here's a possible resource to consider:

http://www.joshharris.com/ikdg/ikdgmain.htm

[mommyb]

Could someone explain to me what this is? Is this where you have your children wait for God to bring them their mate w/o dating?

I will be praying for you Leslie. You have raised terrific boys. God is working in their lives and you should be very proud of them. I think he will respect your wishes and give a solid ear to your advice. It is so hard for kids his age. I remember being 17 :oops: . I will remember your family in my daily prayers. Please let us know how it is going.

[BlessedMommy]

My DH and I believe in courtship however our daughter is just shy of 6 weeks old! So I don't have parenting experience to offer. However, my DH and I courted each other. And DH is my only "real" boyfriend that I've ever had. So I guess that I somewhat can speak from a little personal experience.

In my teen years, it was fine to get to know boys in a general way. But I found that singling out one in particular caused problems. Young ladies in particular can get very attached and their hearts can get drawn out prematurely. Perhaps you could explain the possible pitfalls of singling out one girl in particular to your son? I know that probably "laying down the law" might be too strict. So maybe you and your son and DH could have an open conversation and go from there in mutually agreeing what your level of acceptability.

[1Cor13]

I am loston this on?? what is Courtship?? What does it stand for and mean???thanks

[luvmy4sons]

Yes, thanks Madre. Zachary has read that book. My dh and I have even taken a seminar by Reb Bradley on courtship. But reading about it and actually encountering all the little decisions along the way I have found to be quite different. Most challenging. I know God will lead us. :D

[luvmy4sons]

In my teen years, it was fine to get to know boys in a general way. But I found that singling out one in particular caused problems. Young ladies in particular can get very attached and their hearts can get drawn out prematurely. Perhaps you could explain the possible pitfalls of singling out one girl in particular to your son? I know that probably "laying down the law" might be too strict. So maybe you and your son and DH could have an open conversation and go from there in mutually agreeing what your level of acceptability.



Thanks Ruth. A good point. Zachary and I actually communicate very well and this is something that I can discuss with him. I will wait for another "moment" to do so.

[luvmy4sons]

I am loston this on?? what is Courtship?? What does it stand for and mean???thanks



Well, it is basically the belief that dating doesn't work. I will try to simplify it and summariaze it. As you date especially when you are very young, not an adult ready to be married, you risk too much time alone together and get physically and emotionally involved when you really aren't ready for a true committment like marriage.

It is the belief that physical involvement should be left till marriage. This includes kissing. It is the belief that you should get to know a potential mate in large groups and time spent with family, not alone. That you should listen to the wisdom and counsel of your parents and ask God to show you whom He wants you to marry. Not that parents should pick your mate but that you should listen to them as they see things and know things that a young person can't see or know.

It is the belief that by dating you simply are tearing off little pieces of your heart and giving them away so that when you meet your true spouse your heart is torn in pieces and you carry baggage with you. It is the belief that you wait for God to show you whom he wants you to marry, then you get to know that person in groups and in family time; and if the families work well together and if the parents agree it is good, then you declare yourself and move onto marriage. That the ideal is that your first kiss ever would be on your wedding day. That is your wedding gift to each other. Your whole heart and your whole body, pure and ready for a true comittment of more than just infatuation, but a mature, sacrificial agape love.

Techinically a true courtship is out of the question for a 17 year old. He is not ready to be married and support a family. Hence the difficult issue. That is simplified some but the book, " I kissed Dating Good-bye " by Joshua Harris is a great resource.

[Rach]

Interesting. I never heard of that until I read this thread.

I'll have to think about this one! Part of mine and dh's bond came from him helping me with my 'baggage' and 'putting my heart back together'. The other major part of mine and dh's bond (besides the kiddos) is him coming to Christ and us both moving forward in our spiritual journeys.

The questions would be, would we still have met each other and would our relationship have blossomed if we hadn't dated anyone else before. We were pretty young when we met, 19, so WOW you have given me a lot to think about, thanks!

[Queenofmycastle]

I have never heard of "courtship". When I was 16 or so boys could come to family functions and such with us but we were never allowed to go with them. The only problem I have with what you are saying is does it give a little too much say on the part of the parents as to who the child gets to know.

I am sure I told someone this story recently and if I am repeating myself I'm sorry. My grandmother went to a very strict church when I was a teenager and they didn't believe in alot of the things we were allowed to do such as wear makeup and cut our hair. The ministers daughter was known to be just perfect. They practiced something similar I think to what you are calling courtship. She became pg and the congregation wanted to know if they were monitoring her so close if she got that way in the Sunday School Room.

Alicia

[AmyB]

I am sure I told someone this story recently and if I am repeating myself I'm sorry. My grandmother went to a very strict church when I was a teenager and they didn't believe in alot of the things we were allowed to do such as wear makeup and cut our hair. The ministers daughter was known to be just perfect. They practiced something similar I think to what you are calling courtship. She became pg and the congregation wanted to know if they were monitoring her so close if she got that way in the Sunday School Room.

I would have felt very badly for that minister and his family. It sounds like the congregation was holding them to a standard that is not humanly possible to meet and no one offered them any compassion.

[Queenofmycastle]

I would have to agree with you. I am sorry if this isn't the right post for this. However, I still have a hard time believing that I can be a Christian and not feel tons of conviction for the things this preacher believed a woman should look like.

This is the same minister who met me at the door of the church and told me I couldn't come in because I had pants on. My mom's brother and sister in law had my baby sister and I was to meet them at the church to pick her up. (BTW, I was a teenager when my sister was born!) This same minister was convinced it had to be a cover-up.

I didn't mean to get way off subject!

I truly am sorry! I seem to be sticking my foot in my mouth alot lately. I am not saying the courtship premise is not a good thing but that anything can be taken to an extreme.

Alicia

[imported_rachel]

Probably a fair assumption that the young man or woman would have to desire to go about finding a partner this way too, without serial dating, for it to actually go well. Teens know how to sneak around, especially pks :wink: jk

[luvmy4sons]

Dating didn't become a standard till the 1920's. :shock: :!: Couples weren't to be alone. :!: They had chaperones and met in public places. In those days if you kissed someone, you had to marry them! :D The divorce rate and teen pregnancy has steadily risen since the 20's.

I know it isn't for everyone...but certainly the way we do it now with young teens spending hours of time alone together isn't working very well; at least by judging the divorce rate and teen pregnancies. :? I thought it made perfet sense from a secular view even. We don't want them to get serious. We don't want them to get involved sexually. Yet we allow them, with their surging hormones and curiosity to spend hours and hours alone together, which causes their hearts to bond and their bodies to yearn. It doesn't make sense. :roll: God designed sex for marriage; and as parents we know you don't stop a speeding train, yet what else do we expect them to do after months and months alone together for hours and hours at a time! :?: It is illogical. :?

If you put in biblical standards, then it is even more illogical. But I must say it is prettier on paper than in trying to figure out the details of it day to day. I figure we just keep praying and taking it moment by moment.

[Rach]

But I must say it is prettier on paper than in trying to figure out the details of it day to day. I figure we just keep praying and taking it moment by moment.

Thanks for the additional info about dating, that does make sense!

I would imagine like anything else, the more people are doing this, the more 'normal' and easier it would get. If you went to a church where everyone practiced courtship (at least tried) I can imagine it would be a lot easier.

What about if they go to college?

[magk8ball]

i am going to try to do my best here and explain what i have observed. i will use my cousin as an example. she is now 27.. almost 28 (single), and is still being challenged by her parents to adhere strictly to the rules of courtship, to the extent that her dad is trying to play a very active role in choosing the man for her to marry. even meeting a guy for coffee at a local starbucks is absolutely not allowed. at her age, it is becoming much harder to find a single man who is willing to 'court.' to me, i feel that having so many 'rules and regulations,' kinda takes the romance out of finding your life partner and helpmate. and at what age can a woman, or a man for this matter, start making some decisions on her own? how many of you moms adhered to the principles of courtship, claiming that dating doesn't work, when you met your husbands? when do you start to trust your adult children to make adult decisions? i believe there should be guidelines, yes. i was not allowed to have time alone with a guy until i was 18. he would have to ask my dad's permission before taking me out. we were encouraged to have time with each others families, and curfews were in order. but who i dated, and who i married was my choice. i married a wonderful christian man at the age of 23, and we will most likely set the same guidelines for our daughter, soon to be daughters.

[luvmy4sons]

but who i dated, and who i married was my choice. i married a wonderful christian man at the age of 23, and we will most likely set the same guidelines for our daughter, soon to be daughters.

Amen! That is how we feel. We are not going to try to hand pick our sons wives. We won't INSIST on anything. I have home educated these boys to be godly men. At 17 or older they are going to either adhere to that training or not. I am, at this point, just making suggestions. I tell my son how I feel and I tell him I trust him to make good decisions. Once he is off to college...I have no control...nor do I think I should have any. I DO hope he seeks our advice. I DO hope he remains physically pure until marriage.

I did not DO any of the things we are hoping for our sons. But I also had a lot of pain and suffering as a result. Yes, it all turned out okay. I wouldn't have my sons now if I hadn't made the choices I did and married whom I married. Yet, I do hope for a godlier path for my sons. I also know that they must choose their spouse. NOT ME. I pray for them. I instilled godly values, hopefully, into them...and now God must refine them. I hope to be a counselor and guide all of their lives...as THEY seek me...otherwise I hope to remain silently prayerful and encouraging. :D

[mumof2boyz]

I'm definitely in favor of courtship as well, even though my boys are only 1 and 3. Dh and I did not technically "date", we courted, and it was definitely our choice, not our parents. I'm not just "surviving" a marriage than was "arranged". I'm so very thankful that neither of us has baggage... our first kiss was the first for both of us, etc. I realize that those who become Christians later on, do not have this opportunity & God can bless them just as much. Just my 2 cents...

[mumof2boyz]

luvmy4sons, you are right on... I think the key is that our kids know we trust them... too many rules & not enough trust can cause rebellion, but when we let them know how we feel, but still let go of them, they are less likely to let us down.

There are 2 things we give our kids; one is roots, and the other is wings...

[luvmy4sons]

luvmy4sons, you are right on... I think the key is that our kids know we trust them... too many rules & not enough trust can cause rebellion, but when we let them know how we feel, but still let go of them, they are less likely to let us down.

There are 2 things we give our kids; one is roots, and the other is wings...

I am rarely right on. There but for the grace of God go I.

[kymommy]

Testimony time [preach] The Lord led me in college to stop "dating around" very early in college. he place it on my heart to never date a man that I would not marry and that my parents would not approve of. All my girlfriends gave me grief and thought I was crazy, but why would you want to develop a dating relationship with a man who wasn't up to marrying standards? It was sort of tough, and I wasn't sure where God was leading me, until I got to develop a friendship with an awesome young man. We were able to talk on campus, at the Baptist Student Union, Bible Studies, group activities, concerts etc. I'm amazed how well we got to know each other without ever being alone or on a date. I began realizing that this man met all the standards I wanted in a man (I had a list I created from scripture, conviction, and scripture with #1 being that he be and on-fire, bible reading, God-seeking Christian) One night he finally shared with me that he was in love [lovesmile] I admitted I was in love too :oops: We were engaged a few months after that and have been married almost 13 years! To me, that's what courtship is about. I have not read Josh Harris's book, but plan to read it with my daughters when they get a little older (They' re 7 and 10)
But from my experience, God wrote our story and we were in His plan. I didn't have to date around. We didn't even spend a lot of time together alone before we were married (too tempting)
I'm encouraged that you care about your son's relationships and I trust that God is at work in their lives.

[luvmy4sons]

Testimony time [preach] The Lord led me in college to stop "dating around" very early in college. he place it on my heart to never date a man that I would not marry and that my parents would not approve of. All my girlfriends gave me grief and thought I was crazy, but why would you want to develop a dating relationship with a man who wasn't up to marrying standards? It was sort of tough, and I wasn't sure where God was leading me, until I got to develop a friendship with an awesome young man. We were able to talk on campus, at the Baptist Student Union, Bible Studies, group activities, concerts etc. I'm amazed how well we got to know each other without ever being alone or on a date. I began realizing that this man met all the standards I wanted in a man (I had a list I created from scripture, conviction, and scripture with #1 being that he be and on-fire, bible reading, God-seeking Christian) One night he finally shared with me that he was in love [lovesmile] I admitted I was in love too :oops: We were engaged a few months after that and have been married almost 13 years! To me, that's what courtship is about. I have not read Josh Harris's book, but plan to read it with my daughters when they get a little older (They' re 7 and 10)
But from my experience, God wrote our story and we were in His plan. I didn't have to date around. We didn't even spend a lot of time together alone before we were married (too tempting)
I'm encouraged that you care about your son's relationships and I trust that God is at work in their lives.

Thank you! Your story was very encouraging to me! :D

[Madre]

luvmy4sons, you are right on...


I am rarely right on. There but for the grace of God go I.

Don't you believe it, Mumof2boyz! :wink: :D

[buttercup_97140]

Another story in favor of courting! :-D
There is a couple in our church, whom have been married for a year now, and their parents raised them to court also. The woman's (Nicole) dad prayed for her for a godly husband, and actually had been silently praying for years that she would marry this one particular guy (Cole) from our church. When Nicole and Cole were 20 or almost 20, they started noticing each other on their own. Cole asked Nicole's dad if he could spend more time with her, and he agreed. They didn't really date, they did have some alone time, but was in public places. After a few months, Cole sat down with Nicole's dad and talked with him about marriage. Both Cole's parents and Nicole's parents decided that it wouldn't be wise for them to get engaged until Cole passed a realestate license test so that he would be able to work and provide for his family. Sadly, he failed two or three times, and the wedding they were so hoping for in summer had to be put off til winter. He finally did pass, and they allowed them to get engaged. Since they knew by then that they were given to each other by the Lord, they planned their wedding, and got married. They were young, but both had been raised in Godly homes, and were leading very Godly lives. They were just meant to be together, and the parents saw the blessing from the Lord. I actually think Cole and Nicole felt comforted that they had their parents wisdom to back them up, and also their blessings. They are the sweetest, most Godly couple...and that's not me lifting them up as something they can't possibly become. They love the Lord so much and all his blessings. They were also physically pure until their wedding day....she did end up with very chapped lips after her honeymoon...but hey, who can blame them? LOL
I still think it's so awesome that Nicole's dad prayed for years that she would marry Cole...and no one knew his desire for her...and the Lord answered him....he is so good!
My Dh and I haven't talked much about courting vs dating, Dh has stated that DD won't marry or be able to come out of the basement to see other boys until she is thirty..(LOL) We all know THAT's so not going to happen....haahaa!! I didn't come to the Lord until I was pg with DD at 27, so I had many "crushes" and dating attemps, even some sexual explorations, and I mourn the loss of purity that I could have had....but the Lord knew I would someday choose him, and he still blessed me, but if I could have a redo, I would have Godly parents who care so much about me and the choices I make that they were there to impart wisdom into how and who I married.

I think it's so awesome that you have done this for your DS. He is truely blessed!!

Amber

Am I allowed to say I agree with this concept even though I haven't experienced dating kids yet?

I just feel Christians shouldn't align themselves with boyfriends/girlfriends too early or willy nilly - it CAN lead to sexual temptation and creates little respect for - I don't mean sexual intimacy, but IMO even a lot of Christian teens will date for the purpose of kissing and cuddling which is part of "sexual romancing", which leads into gray areas for them as people temptation wise. People make out as though it is only sexual activity which is damaging to the soul, but I do believe that any kind of fondling and kissing with just "anyone" is also damaging.

We are hoping to forbid any kind of relationships for our children until they are of marriagable age.otherwise - what are they doing except "experimenting" with adult stuff, if they can't get married or aren't in the market to get married then what are they doing? "Playing with fire.

I am not sure how to achieve this since "boyfriends and girlfriends" are the done thing, even in church circles. Even kids as young as 12/13 have been allowed to date - and some say awwww isn't that cute!

While you can't control and be domineering in such a way that it causes embitterment child to parent - there would be ways of handling this the right way.

My friends are youth pastors and I know they did some kind of course on dating and relationships with their teens and they told us that they now have NO COUPLES amoung there teens. I know they didn't outright go and tell everyone to break up or else, so it would be interesting to ask Sean and Kerry what they actually said/did.

As a youngun I never had any desire to date and have multiple boyfriends. I saw it as a waste of myself and not only that but many of the boys I grew up with at church were all too sexual and picking out girls who were known to be looser or weaker (such as newly saved girls)
and vice versa. It was a thought process of ... oh well they're okay they said the sinners prayer.... UMMM NOT! So thats another thing we'd be watching out for.

AM

[Springtime]

Leslie, it sounds like you are doing the right thing... when I was a teen the whole courting thing was just starting to be talked about but I already believed a lot of the "ideas" of courting in my heart. I never dated. My parents didn't really set rules for me but just talked to me a lot about how great God's plan was for my life from a very young age. I have been married for only five years now but we both never dated anyone before each other... I'm not sure if we courted exactly... we did spend time alone but never in really private places. We did hold hands, kiss and a little bit of hugging :D but personally I didn't want my first kiss to be in front of hundreds of people (most of whom I didn't know) I think when you raise your kids the way it sounds to me like you are raising yours, then once they actually start working through it themselves they have to choose in their own hearts what they will do.... but I think you sound like you already know that. It's when parents make it into rules that it causes problems... it has to come from the heart.