I just thought I would start a thread because I know some of us use a combination approach to discipline and thought it would be a good place to go when we stray from our desired plan... To make a long story short, I spanked dd tonight and had written about spanking my ds last week. In my poursuit of a more gentle apporach several months ago, specifically around bedtime, I had decided for my ds that I wasn't going to fight him on where he slept anymore, my bed or his, that when he decided he was big enough for his own bed, that would be fine with me. That has worked well, especially since I up and moved my bed into the kids' room so I am right there...

For dd, I had been doing everything from the strict 'stay in your bed or you will get a spanking' to the "nanny" approach of putting her back repeatedly without saying a word, to giving up and just goign to sleep with her or laying next to her until she fell asleep opnly to hear her crying and screaming for me a short time later (usually just as I was getting into a movie or book." Anyway, for her, I decided I woudl just rub/pat her until she went to sleep. It is what we do with the kids at work who have a hard time falling asleep (which ironically neithe rof my kids do). It has worked fairly well for a while. A few weeks into it, she had about of waking up every night and wanting me to put her back to sleep, which I basically refused to do, then changed my mind and decided that less than a minute of reassurance and patting isn't that hard, and the frequency of night waking has declined. Admitedly, there are times that she wakes up still and climbs in my bed, but it takes us all of 30 seconds to go back to sleep, so that is okay. At bedtime, after she has been bathed, pj'd, brushed teeth, had storytime, I sit next to her bed and rub her to sleep. What is happening now though is that she fights sleeping: wiggling, tossing, fussing, pulling the covers up to peek out, etc. For the past couple weeks, I have been telling her that I will only pat her when she is ready, eyes closed and body still. At first she seemed to "get it." There were a couple nights that I said that and she continued and I stuck to just being "done" as I said I would and she went to sleep on her own, crying and fighting all the way. The problem with that is that after not seeing my kids all day, except the last hour and a half that we are on the playground at work together, I work hard to really connect with them and engage as a family, and it really bother sme that it can't just be peaceful. Tonight was the second time that after about twenty minutes of fighting, I gave her a spank on her thigh, repositioned her and proceeded to pat her until she fell asleep. The spank is obviously not as peaceful as just drifting beautifully off to sleep, but it is effective. However, I really am trying to be more gentle and only using spanking as a last resort. It is really just this one area with her that I have had to "go there." I just wondered if anyone would have some advice on how to handle the fighting against my effort to be more GBD at bedtime. It is almost as though she prefers the spanking?!?

I'm sorry, I've forgotten how old your dd is. I think that would help me give you the best suggestions.

I do remember when DS#1 was little...2.5 or 3 maybe, that I had alot of success by going through our bedtime routine and praying and singing a lullabye and then I or dh would sit on the foot of his bed until he drifted off to sleep. We had a no chit chatting rule, and he needed to remain lying down, but it was alot less stressful for us to just sit on the foot of his bed just being there for him while he drifted off to sleep. I did alot of reading and word searches (booklights are awesome btw)....so did dh.

It did take 20-30 minutes sometimes....once in awhile, it took longer, but it was a very gentle approach, and DS really benefited from knowing that we'd help him get to sleep when he couldn't do it on his own. It was just a season of doing that really, it wasn't something that we continued with for life, it was essentially just a phase, and we helped him through it and pretty soon we didn't have to be there anymore for him to go to sleep because he was more mature.

Anyway, with that approach, it wasn't as stressful for dh or I. We resigned ourselves to the fact hat he needed help falling asleep, at the same time we saved ourselves a little sanity by being able to read something during the process, lol.

Thanks, Mo! My dd is almost 2.5, turned 2 in January. I thought some more about it, and I wonder if she sensed that I was in a rush. I am going to try to act more like I have all the time in the world to sit there, lol, and I am definitely hoping that it will pass. Thanks for the encouragement!

Thanks, Mo! My dd is almost 2.5, turned 2 in January. I thought some more about it, and I wonder if she sensed that I was in a rush. I am going to try to act more like I have all the time in the world to sit there, lol, and I am definitely hoping that it will pass. Thanks for the encouragement!

That's what I keep remembering during those phases with the boys. Eventually, they will pass. Boy, that's hard to remember in the midst of the struggle though.... It's funny how short these phases are in our kids life compared to the length of their lives as a whole, but they certainly throw us for a loop in the midst of them and make us feel like they'll be needing help to go to sleep until they leave for college, lol.

Thanks, Mo! My dd is almost 2.5, turned 2 in January. I thought some more about it, and I wonder if she sensed that I was in a rush. I am going to try to act more like I have all the time in the world to sit there, lol, and I am definitely hoping that it will pass. Thanks for the encouragement!

You know, when I was reading your post, I wondered if your dd was at a "half-age" like 2.5, 3.5, etc. It's very normal for them at half ages to have a harder time, especially at bed-time (& especially at 2.5) Have you read Ames & Ilg "YOur Two Year Old" ? Great book to read (they have a series up to 6yrs old I think). ANyway, he talks about 1/2 ages being the most trying times. :-)

Oh, and I am treading lightly here..on the "spanking works" issue. Since this is about "grace based discipline" - the idea that spanking works has crossed my thoughts during the coarse of raising my sons.
I really like this assessment on the issue of spanking.
http://goybparenting.com/?page_id=33

Here is an exert:
"Spanking is not the issue. Not spanking is not the issue.

The issue is that children require a lot of time, attention, direction and guidance. They require this *regardless* of discipline choices. The further truth is that even if you include spanking (or other forms of punishment), you will need to include the tools of EPP (Effective,practical,parenting) in order to be an effective, good parent.

I’ll say it again. The focus on *spanking* or *not spanking* misses the mark and obscures the real issue. EPP isn’t about “not spanking”. It’s parenting in a manner that teaches, encourages, guides, corrects and assists children into maturity while helping them meet the family standard for behavior."

I hear what you are saying! I realize there is far more to GBD than spanking but for me it is the most obvious way in which I cave on my ideals and go the route that I am trying to get away from in the first place. It really struck me what I think it was Mo wrote in another thread, that I have built up the way we do things over the past almost five years and it is unrealistic to expect it all to change over night, even if I desperately want it to. My non- GBD practices go beyond spanking and includes plenty of yelling, throwing up my hands, etc. I would have a lot of that to confess as well. It is one of the main reasons I am in counseling, to address some of the angers, hurt, resentment and frustration within myself so that it doesn't rear its ugly head when I am dealing with my kids. It is really sad to see that often my getting upset isn't actually because of a particular behavior. When I "lose it" I find myself thinking afterwards 'was it really that big a deal?' What am I really angry/stressed about? And why in the world am I taking that, whatever it might be, out on my kids? The reality is I have way too much on my plate and need to keep my priorities in check; counseling is helping with that. I also think coming here is helpful, not only in finding suggestions and advice but in the way that it provides an opportunity to just put stuff out there and be more aware.

The point about half ages is interesting; I've never heard or thought about that before... I have goybp bookmarked and may re-visit when I get a chance. I will admit I am not a big reader of parenting books, and have read very few, but the series you mentioned sounds interesting and if I ever get the cash to pay my overdue library fees (from when I moved and misplaced their movies for a couple weeks) I may check it out.

Thank you for replying and for being here in general. I thought it was a good idea to have a place to go to say 'I made a mistake; I strayed from the way I want to parent, and here it is. And hopefully, it will be kept in mind the next time similar issues arise.

It is really sad to see that often my getting upset isn't actually because of a particular behavior. When I "lose it" I find myself thinking afterwards 'was it really that big a deal?' What am I really angry/stressed about? And why in the world am I taking that, whatever it might be, out on my kids? You're not alone there sister! I find myself doing the same thing. Just yesterday in fact, after 5 days of being without dh (who was on a bus. trip), I was getting the kids ready to go run some errands. I was REALLY looking forward to it because we hadn't been out of our own yard since Sunday. I had everything ready, kids were in shoes, I had actually put on makeup, and I was trying to get the dog to go in her kennel, and DS#2 lets her outside. We have no fence, and she's a coonhound, so she follows her nose, and once she gets on a trail, she won't come back. I was SO angry at DS#2, I really yelled at him and asked him what on earth he was doing[sadashamed]. He's only 2 years old, he didn't let her out on purpose, but I didn't stop to think about that until after I'd yelled at him pretty angrily several times when he kept trying to come outside while I was calling for the dog. He finally stuck his head out the door and was calling "Seeker...Wha AAAAHHH You?" Just like I was. ] talk about wanting to stick my head in the sand....

I should've handled it SO much better. I should've just taken it in stride and dealt with it because I'm the adult, but after the week I had where I was taking care of the home and family alone, I took out the littlest thing on my sweet baby.

I've also noticed that whenever I'm in an emotional funk for whatever reason, that I find myself really coming down on the boys for things that really shouldn't be that big a deal.

Really though, I'm not perfect. One day, God will transform me and I won't have to worry about my imperfections anymore, but for now, I just have to keep on keeping on and try to do better the next day. The boys are certainly learning that Mom makes mistakes though, and learning how to apologize by seeing me do it to them...I hope that's the silver lining...

Kaliah, what you said up there about effective parenting is just so true. Its not about spanking or not spanking bc you need to have the skills and self control to be a good parent. You can be just as horrible or worse with attitudes, time given (neglect in one are or another). And fwiw, this is why you sensed that I didnt feel I had made a mistake when I spanked my dd the other day. I have a problem with anger, stress, dont we all, maybe some more than others. You have to guide and 'discipline' or disciple your children in one way or another. Even if you are an unattentive parent, they will pick up habits and such from us. Its my goal to learn thru having children to become a calmer (more rational) person, like Christ. This is why I dont judge parents who do choose to spank. Bc they can do parent just as lovingly and, dare I say, righteously as a parent who chooses to use the 'gbd' approach. When I think about it there needs not be the distinction between 'parents who spank' vs 'parents who dont spank'. Its more to me about learning self control. Ive learned a lot having these restrictions in my parenting. I cant just lash out. I have to learn to think straight in the heat of the moment. Its not taken that long to get on the right road with this. Its still a learning curve for us, but we are all learning. My kids see me changing as Christ moves in my life and it says something to them, yk? Anyway. gotta go. good thread.

gen

You're not alone there sister! I find myself doing the same thing. Just yesterday in fact, after 5 days of being without dh (who was on a bus. trip),

You make a good point here; One of the primary things I am working on is the fact that I HAVE to get over the fact that I am alone, and most likely will always be alone, raising my kids and I somehow HAVE to find a way to let go of the anger/frustration and resentment that comes along with it. Living daily with the mentality of "this is the bed I made, now lay in it" has not served me well at all. I am trying really hard to see my life with my children as a blessing and not a curse, kwim? It is difficult at times, especially hard times, to remember that they are a gift not a punishment, and treat them accordingly as the sweet, precious little people that they are!!


I've also noticed that whenever I'm in an emotional funk for whatever reason, that I find myself really coming down on the boys for things that really shouldn't be that big a deal.

I am learning abut the connection between my emotions and my parenting; it's very present and very real. I recognize that I am in that funk more often than I am not and I can see why that is so unhealthy. I am glad I am finally in counseling to deal with these things because I cannot continue to ignore them and just let it be the way it has been. I agree that the lesson that everyone (even mama) makes mistakes is a valuable one and thankfully, they are becoming fewer and further between for us. For a while there, I found myself asking, really how many times do I think my ds will accept my apology? This discipline stuff is tough stuff, for sure!

I am thankful for my job as it has given me new tools and I find when I employ my work voice and methods to my own children that it works a lot better than being the angry, stressed out mother that I don't want to be. Thanks for your replies. It means a lot to me that others can relate to the struggle.

When I think about it there needs not be the distinction between 'parents who spank' vs 'parents who dont spank'. Its more to me about learning self control. Ive learned a lot having these restrictions in my parenting. I cant just lash out. I have to learn to think straight in the heat of the moment. Its not taken that long to get on the right road with this. Its still a learning curve for us, but we are all learning. My kids see me changing as Christ moves in my life and it says something to them, yk? Anyway. gotta go. good thread.

gen

This is so encouraging because it really is the changing that counts. I have come a long way in a relatively short time. Lashing out can take on many forms and there is also the harmful behavior of withdrawal that happens sometimes. My mother used and still uses emotional withdrawal, throwing up her hands, giving up and shutting down as a primary tool of discipline and I think my overdoing the lashing out may have something to do with my definitely not wanting to do that, itmas?

My mother used and still uses emotional withdrawal, throwing up her hands, giving up and shutting down as a primary tool of discipline and I think my overdoing the lashing out may have something to do with my definitely not wanting to do that, itmas?

Andrea, that makes perfect sense. I find myself behaving in a certain way with my kids so that I 'dont do what my mom did to me'. I also find myself subconciously or unconciously dont the exact same things my mom did. I cant say my mom was a bad mother, not at all. But the emotional 'blackmail', silent treatment, and other things do have a subconcious influence on how I react in the heat of the moment. Whats so incredibly totally awesome is that I hear the Lord's voice telling me I cant behave that way. That is when the true conviction comes. You know it doesnt come from anywhere else. Awesome. Anyway. ...

Ill tell you what happened today...

I was 'allowed' to go clothes shopping for mostly myself but I wanted to look for something for my girls for a wedding we are going to in July. My ds, joshua would die if I made him go girly shopping so he stayed home. I dont know about you, but any kind of shopping really stresses me out these days and I end up sometimes really not thinking straight. So I get the girls some things, myself ONE pair of jeans, and dh some stuff. I knew Josh didnt need anyting and didnt think he'd be upset with me not getting him anything. I was wrong. Poor guy was so upset, saying I could have gotten him something. And he was right, everyone else got something, it was very thoughtless of me. When he cries over something like that I used to get very annoyed. I had been out shopping and I already said that stresses me out, come back to him winging and whining. But I just had him sit down and talk about it, I could see he was holding back tears. And I said I was really sorry, they didnt have anything I thought he wantd and that I should have gotten him something. He is a part of the family after all! So I gave him a pound and we went to the corner shop and he was allowed to get a treat.

See I mostly only post the things that I manage to do right bc I do far too many things wrong to post about it! Where would I begin! lol.

gen