Attitude/homeschool rebellion/youth group?

[gamommyto4girls]

Okay, as you can see I don't even know quite what to call this one. If you had asked me last week I would say everything was going along quite nicely, especially with school. Several friends have asked how are things really going with homeschooling since we made the change a few months ago. I've always answered, "Just great! It's amazing the way the Lord blesses you when you follow His lead!" Not that we haven't had the ocassional bad day, but on the whole I know that God had been asking us to do this for a long time and I've been so glad that we finally listened! Sure it's hard, but it has been so worth it!

Well apparently I've had an underground mutiny beginning, I was just unaware. Our oldest (11) went away to a youth retreat this weekend. I'm new to the whole youth group thing, since she's the first. I do remember my own y/g days, but was hoping and praying that this one was a bit more productive. She'd been saying for weeks that things were a bit rough socially with lots of the m/s girls. Dh and I thought this actually was a good thing as it 'seemed' to be showing her what she did not want to do and how she did not want to behave from the things that she said to us. Well, she came back yesterday with a major attitude problem! I tried several times to engage her casually in conversation and received little response. Last night when I went to tell my older two to start getting ready for bed I heard them talking in their bathroom. My oldest was telling the younger (9) how much she hated me and homeschooling. She went on to say that I'm only doing 'this' because I used to be a teacher and don't feel like working anymore and that I've totally ruined her life. She then said that we've forced her into having nothing in common with her friends and that she is absolutely miserable. I was shocked and heartbroken in that moment. I left immediately, the girls never knew I was there. I did not mean to eavesdrop and truly don't do that with my kids, but when I heard those first few words it was like I was frozen silently at the door. My younger one did try to interject a few positive comments, but oldest wouldn't have any of it. I didn't say a word but went to my bedroom early last night and mentioned it to dh. He was quite surprised as well as he stated that he's had lots of talks with the girls since the transistion and thought they had positive feedback about school.

Today started out a bit tensely, the oldest dd was clearly still not herself. I again tried to engage her in the morning, asking how her friends were and how she thought school was going. She burst into tears, but when I asked her why she said she didn't know. I tried to clarify asking if she didn't know or knew, but didn't want to talk about it. She admitted it was the latter. I let her know that I wanted to help her and was available to talk to her about anything.

Fast forward to this afternoon and she did engage me in a long discussion about God, salvation, and Christianity. We spoke for two plus hours! She basically wanted to know why different Christians seem to have different beliefs about things and I tried dilligently to answer all of her questions. Finally she made her point, that she didn't understand why her father and I wouldn't let her wear a particular item of clothing and said that old standy- 'everyone else' at the entire event was allowed to wear it and how horribly miserable and embarrased we made her feel. I did my best to honesty answer her and draw her out about whether she honestly liked the item or just felt the need to wear it because everyone else did. We talked about modesty and clothing and shared some scripture. We then had a talk about how Christians can't always do what the world is doing, as it sometimes contradicts what God is telling US (our particular family) to do. After lots and lots of discussion, I almost feel like I should have just said, "You can't wear it because we say so and that's that!".

I finally sat down (about three hours later than usual) to correct today's work and low and behold found that some of said dd's answers were suspiciously word for word for a teacher's edition!!!! Ya know, that "answers vary" is a sure give a way! Come to find out after some discussion, she's cheated several times over the last few weeks!!!! I gave her some extra work to do and my dh spoke with her as well. She seemed truly sorry and remorseful, but Aaahhhh!!!!!!!

So, I'm really discouraged and just totally feeling defeated today. I think we've conquered todays battle, but feel like this could be the beginning of something far worse. I'm really worried and just heartsick. I'm thinking of removing her from youth group as this seems to have encited this particular rebellion (many of the kids and their families believe differently than we do) but am not sure if this is really a good idea. We have steered her socially a bit towards some particular like minded families and girls but she 'tolerates' them only and does not seem to truly desire their friendship. Also worried that as with many things this attitude could trickle down to the younger ones as well.

Help! And thanks for reading this epic!

[kymommy]

I don't have any words of wisdom, just wanted to share that you are not alone. We are going through many similar challenges with our 11 yo dd too. I was just talking to my dh about how overnight, I'm not sure how to talk to her. There is so much drama, she cries frequently, many social/friend issues. I'm really seeking the Lord on how to relate to her. I will be praying for you all.

[Tammyn4As]

We had simaliar issues with out daughter when she was 11 and esp. after she came home from church summer camp. She seemed like a different kid, I was so worried. After a week or so she was more normal. Around her 12th birthday (back in Nov.) things really changed for the better. She sees her other friends going thru some of the same things and will say "hormones are evil!" She can laugh about it now but was full of attitude for quite a while, but it does get better! At least until the next stage!?!

[luvmy4sons]

Beth,

I can only imagine your disappointment. I am so sorry. Being a mother is so hard. Often our choices do not thrill our children. I am sure you well know this! 11 year old girls are at such a tumultuous time, hormones and all...and changing to home schooling can be a difficult transition.

My eldest and I had some painful discussions when he was that age round about. Of course he had been home schooled except for kindergarten and first grade. He was sort of melancholy feeling as if he were missing out on some friendships etc...We always had our own reservations about youth group so he didn't belong to one. So our issue was slightly different.

No matter what choices you make your children are often going to have issues with them. And no matter where they go to school or whether they attend youth group or not I have found that there will likely always be problems to arise, character issues to deal with, painful trianing to do with my sons. And I often feel weary. That is why my mantra is the verse: "Do not weary in well doing, bofr you shal reap a harvest in due season if you faint not."

It sounds like to me that God has given you a window into your daughter's soul. And you handled that situation so wonderfully. You heard her. She talked to you. God will continue to help you along whether you decide to stop youth group or not. I don't have any specific advice, but wanted to let you know you are not alone nor is your situation strange to anyone else. Other's might come in different packaging but all parent's struggle at times with issues with their children, home schooled or not. There are pluses and minuses to each choice.

One more thing, I often tell my sons that I have to make decisions that they will thank me for when they are thirty, not thirteen. It isn't easy being the parent...but we can do all things through Christ who gives us strength. Praying for you.

[gamommyto4girls]

Thanks ladies, you make me feel much less alone in all of this and that truly is comforting. One day at a time with this I guess.

[JeanineAnne]

Oh Beth...I am so sorry. It is days like that that satan uses to make us second guess God.

Have you done a one-on-one mother/daughter Bible study with her? If not, now is the time. It's easy for me, I only have one girl ;) so its always mother/daughter. Someone suggested a two part Bible study and it is amazing. Well worth the money and time. It address many of the issues you just posted about.

Growing Little Women: Capturing Teachable Moments with Your Daughter by Donna Miller. There is a for younger girls and then the first edition for older girls. Since you have four, you might do well to pick up both.

Raegan and I have done both of them, but she just recently asked me to do the older girls one with her again because she is struggling with some issues. You have a challenge because you have many daughters and they all need you on a personal level. Not that all kids don't...I just am finding that girls need it on a level that boys just don't seem to...of course they desire that from their dad.

You probably are already doing this, but if not, then I also suggest that it is time for your daughter to start dating. Yep, dating. That is her dad of course. If you aren't doing this, I cannot suggest it enough. This is a way for girls to see what it means to be treated well & like a lady. Raegan can't stand boys because she has a measure to compare them to and that measure is high. Dh takes her to nice places to eat, opens doors, pulls out chairs, and orders for her. Her gives her flowers and listen to her when she talks. Without her knowing, we are helping her set standards for what she will be looking for.

I'm praying for you. I often say, I'm totally not ready for this age!! Hugs to you as you work through this trial.

[pioneerchristianmomof3]

Praying for you Beth! I had a really hard time with my oldest dd at that time too. She didn't want to h/s because she felt it made her a "freak". After many trials from cheating, simply refusing to do any work, and general attitude problems, it came out that she thought if she was really horrible I would give up and send her back to school. Once I finally convinced her that, that would not be the case,(in fact it made me more committed to h/s) she settled down. Not too sure if this is what your dd is doing, but it may be worth looking into.

[rachel]

You probably are already doing this, but if not, then I also suggest that it is time for your daughter to start dating. Yep, dating. That is her dad of course. If you aren't doing this, I cannot suggest it enough. This is a way for girls to see what it means to be treated well & like a lady. Raegan can't stand boys because she has a measure to compare them to and that measure is high. Dh takes her to nice places to eat, opens doors, pulls out chairs, and orders for her. Her gives her flowers and listen to her when she talks. Without her knowing, we are helping her set standards for what she will be looking for.

That is brilliant!

[gamommyto4girls]

Thank you Jeanine and Traci. I will look into that Bible study we did one last spring, but it was right before I had the baby and I was admittledly distracted. You're right, dates with Dad are important. My dh is a pretty laid back and casual guy so their dates (every 8 weeks or so) take the form of a breakfast or lunch sometimes or an outside activity like a hike or bike ride. He takes turns doing this with all three of our older girls one at a time. Traci, your point about her acting out so that I will send her back to school is an interesting one, I had that thought originally but sort of dismissed it. I may need to have a conversation with her about it.

You ladies are the best, thanks for your prayers and support.

[Mo2b1d]

I just wanted to send you out a [hug] and remind you that these struggles that you and your dd are going through are common struggles that almost all kids go through. Whether you were homeschooling or not, you'd probably still be going through this.

Your dd got a taste of independence while she was away at the youth retreat. She also got to be exposed for a longer period than normal (without her parent's interraction) to other kids who had different values (even if only a little) and different situations than your own family.

Coming from the public school system, your daughter probably has a pretty strong drive to fit in and blend with other kids in her age group, instead of standing out and being completely unique. That will be harder for her to overcome, because generally, in the public school situation, the drive is for all students to conform and do the same things, academically and personally. She still feels those feelings, so when she went away for a weekend and was exposed to the other kids, she probably got a little scared because her situation as a homeschooler kind of precludes her from conformity with her friends.

Now I'm not saying you shouldn't have sent her because of that, but just that you should be aware that there's probably a big struggle going on in that area with her because up to this point, school has taught her to conform and that everyone must be alike, but now she's in a situation where she's being told NOT to conform and be an individual. Socially, that was probably REALLY scary for a pre-teen whose previous social coping methods involved trying to be like everybody else. (and I don't mean spiritually, because I'm sure she's got a hand in God's hand, but just regular things, like what clothes you wear and what music you like and what classes you should like and what teachers you should hate, etc.)

Also, I personally remember being a kid and my mom and dad commenting that everytime I went and stayed with Grandma and Grandpa for the weekend, or stayed over at a friend's house, that my sis's and I would come back with an attitude. I think it had to do with those situations usually being alot more lax than mom and dad's normal parenting style. I got used to Grandma being a softie and allowing things that mom and dad didn't, so it was a little bit of a stretch when I'd come home, LOL. I remember having an attitude about it and declaring that MANY things were unfair after a weekend away, when I knew in my heart that they really weren't' unfair at all. My Mom and Dad just dealt with it every time and I eventually grew out of it...though I'm sure it really bugged them, LOL. But it was also a learning experience for me because I had to learn how to deal with that situation and learn NOT to have attitude when I came home.

Finally, regarding the copying/cheating with work at home. This is harsh, but if she knew how to do it on her own, she's probably done it at public school before. But the cool thing, is that you know about it, and can alter your assignments and quell it at home. Because you're homeschooling, and the point is to excell and not just get pushed ahead with a C- grade, you could just have her fix any work where she copied until she produced a work that was truly her own. Having to fix all those instances of copying would quell that in a hurry. I'm not sure I'd give extra school work above and beyond what she did as punishment because the point is that you want her to love school and want to do the work. However, I do think that having her take apart her work and remove all the copied parts and re-do it so that its honest work would be appropriate and would quell the desire to cheat. Nobody wants to do the same work twice, and it would be a big deterrent.

Honestly, she was probably just seeing if she could get away with it. You proved to her that she can't, like she could've done in Public School. Good Job!

[JoyLynn]

I just wanted to send you out a [hug] and remind you that these struggles that you and your dd are going through are common struggles that almost all kids go through. Whether you were homeschooling or not, you'd probably still be going through this.

Your dd got a taste of independence while she was away at the youth retreat. She also got to be exposed for a longer period than normal (without her parent's interraction) to other kids who had different values (even if only a little) and different situations than your own family.

Coming from the public school system, your daughter probably has a pretty strong drive to fit in and blend with other kids in her age group, instead of standing out and being completely unique. That will be harder for her to overcome, because generally, in the public school situation, the drive is for all students to conform and do the same things, academically and personally. She still feels those feelings, so when she went away for a weekend and was exposed to the other kids, she probably got a little scared because her situation as a homeschooler kind of precludes her from conformity with her friends.

Now I'm not saying you shouldn't have sent her because of that, but just that you should be aware that there's probably a big struggle going on in that area with her because up to this point, school has taught her to conform and that everyone must be alike, but now she's in a situation where she's being told NOT to conform and be an individual. Socially, that was probably REALLY scary for a pre-teen whose previous social coping methods involved trying to be like everybody else. (and I don't mean spiritually, because I'm sure she's got a hand in God's hand, but just regular things, like what clothes you wear and what music you like and what classes you should like and what teachers you should hate, etc.)

Also, I personally remember being a kid and my mom and dad commenting that everytime I went and stayed with Grandma and Grandpa for the weekend, or stayed over at a friend's house, that my sis's and I would come back with an attitude. I think it had to do with those situations usually being alot more lax than mom and dad's normal parenting style. I got used to Grandma being a softie and allowing things that mom and dad didn't, so it was a little bit of a stretch when I'd come home, LOL. I remember having an attitude about it and declaring that MANY things were unfair after a weekend away, when I knew in my heart that they really weren't' unfair at all. My Mom and Dad just dealt with it every time and I eventually grew out of it...though I'm sure it really bugged them, LOL. But it was also a learning experience for me because I had to learn how to deal with that situation and learn NOT to have attitude when I came home.

Finally, regarding the copying/cheating with work at home. This is harsh, but if she knew how to do it on her own, she's probably done it at public school before. But the cool thing, is that you know about it, and can alter your assignments and quell it at home. Because you're homeschooling, and the point is to excell and not just get pushed ahead with a C- grade, you could just have her fix any work where she copied until she produced a work that was truly her own. Having to fix all those instances of copying would quell that in a hurry. I'm not sure I'd give extra school work above and beyond what she did as punishment because the point is that you want her to love school and want to do the work. However, I do think that having her take apart her work and remove all the copied parts and re-do it so that its honest work would be appropriate and would quell the desire to cheat. Nobody wants to do the same work twice, and it would be a big deterrent.

Honestly, she was probably just seeing if she could get away with it. You proved to her that she can't, like she could've done in Public School. Good Job!

Beautifully said, girlfriend, and good advice, as well! :-D

XOXOX

Joy [welcomewave]

[mama4ever]

Your daughter is in transition. One suggest that I have and didn't see in the other post is that maybe you have a local home school group you can join. Maybe there are other homeschoolers in your area her age. I live in New Jersey and we have many homeschool groups. My daughter and I took a field trip with one of our local groups just last week. Also remember in any school the new kid on the block takes months to adjust. Sometime the entire school year. Give her the same chance. Finally if you know that you heard from God than don't put her back in school. Weather the storm. Your in my prayers.