Additives and "naughty" children

Ladies, I absolutely do not doubt for one second that additives in food can cause the "sillies" with children (hyperactivity etc)

But what do you all believe about these modern beliefs about "additives" causing children to be "naughty" ....

The absolute only reason I even would ask such a question is because when I was a child growing up there were no such children who behaved the way children do these days, if a child did something naughty there were consequences and as far as I am concerned I ate the same things my kids did, and all parents knew all the commonsense things to avoid with regards to soft drink, coke, creaming soda, red cordial etc etc as it makes children BOUNCE OFF WALLS.

So how much of this do you believe is .... almost like the new phase of people not wanting to take responsiblity for raising their children, and how much do you believe of it is REAL? (please no one be offended, some children DO have issues such as autistic tendancies that people mistake for naughtyness, I am not talking about this, or genuine disorders)

I believe in ADD don't get me wrong, my nephew has it - BUT what about all these other disorders ODD (opposition defiance disorder), etc etc.

sometimes I think some of the theories are really the general disorder in society - I am not remarking on hyperactivity because the whole world knows that side of things is true - I am talking about downright rebellion being blamed on food.

I just have to beg the question... the Bible does speak of the spirit of lawlessness in the last days - do you all believe this is part and parcel of that?

Just a thred stated out of interest on what the general consensus among Christians is

Love Aussie Mum

[stephwhiz]

I had honestly not thought about that but you have a good point. When we were kids, you rarely saw a "wild child" and I just assumed it was because discipline was used more back then. I mean I knew if I misbehaved I would get in trouble for it.

Don't get me wrong, I too am not saying that ADD is not valid, I am talking about kids being naughty.

I'll have to give this one some thought. :D

Stephanie :D :D

I'm guessing its because alot less was known, alot less was considered unethical, and personally speaking its cuz I got the tar beat out of me if I got out of line so I was a good little girl...

Although I'm a little younger and all the kids I grew up with were mean! Just plain mean! One beat a teacher with a broom handle, we had one cause us to go on lockdown cuz of a gun, I had a gun put up to my face cuz I witnessed a drug exchange..They slung paperballs wrapped with metal wire at my face...M E A N mean!

Not calling anyone old btw

My daughter is allergic to RED DYE 40,,,Now it gives her a headache and makes her hyper...when she was a baby and toddler she couldn't even hold down foods with that dye in them....Any idea how much food has that particular dye in it????

LOTS!!! and MIL still hasn't figured that out :roll:

[luvmy4sons]

I think it has to do with our victim mentality in this society. No one wants to take responsiblity for anything. If we are this or that it is because of someone or something else. I was abused by my parents, I have this syndrome or that disease, I never had this, I always had this done to me....I know that there are a lot of root causes for various things, but in the end we are responsible for our actions.

And parents these days don't want to take the responsibility of rearing their children. It is easier to give them a pill and call it a name and blame the food and blame the chemcials in the environment. Being a parent takes hard work. I even see Christians who simply don't train their children. :?

I DO believe that there are catalysts in food and in the environment but I agree, in our society, it seems many simply want to put blame on something and not take any responsiblity; and we are seeing more and more lawlessness in our permissive society of entitlement and everyone being a victim. That is just my thoughts on it all! :)

I agree w/Leslie. I see it everyday...parents who just do not want to take responsibility for their children. They would rather let them run completely wild and do whatever they want than try to discipline them. They do no want to be "bothered" with parenting so they give their child a pill and let them go about their way to get them out of their hair.

I do believe that some additives they put into food causes behavorial problems, ie: hyperactivity and such, but for the most part I think children being naughty is to be blamed on the lack of parenting.

Thats just my opinion. :D

Yeah... a LOT of peopel aren't bringing up their kids, whether it's due to lazyness, lack of time, was harder than it cracked up to be ....

Some of it I do blame on institutionalised child care, I mean how do people expect a child to turn out when there is 10 children to 1 adult, no one on one time and children are often there from 6am to 6pm?


I too know A LOT of Christians who refuse to bring up their children, or take on worldly opinions about child rearing !!! I think that is one of the reasons we had to leave our last church, wild girls beating my DD up AT CHURCH! I didn't appreciate having her crying and unhappy on her way home from Sunday school every week saying that girls had hit her with rulers, pushed her into walls !!! That demonstrates complete lack of up bringing and Godly parenting IMO.

So I guess when people begin to hint it makes children "naughty" I do shy from that.... I know baby boomers who refute the theory of ADD with a passion.... I think too many parents ARE wanting pills instead of upbringing, but on the other hand... parents with genuine cases become hurt over accusations about their parenting and many of them don't know about the diet issues THAT CAN BE involved because I don't believe that doctors always give informed choices.

I don't like the current trend to victim mentality either, it's like someone said once if you're not God centred your self centred and that is, i think when victim mentality sets in the most.

[imported_rachel]

I think the study of human behaviour is OK, but the theories out there are at least 50/50 if not mostly flawed.

Another one of the last days bits is the direct comment that children won't "obey their parents."

Whatever factors into that...
...media exemplifying disrespect for authority
....people shaming good parenting techniques so we're disarmed (so to speak)
...tons of bad company online and elsewhere
....many parents MIA and resulting unruly children having an influence on all their peers...

It's probably all downhill now.

ADD and ilk (even Autism) I've also heard could be part "over analysis" (as I've heard many different diagnosis are being given when a kid's only more introverted or extroverted than usual.) With so many experts thinking the growing number of diagnosis are a sign it's going overboard... they are probably right.

Modern human behaviour sciences have a mold, and if you don't fit, something must be wrong with you. Not much budge room. It's a little crazy in and of itself.

So when it's not a warranted diagnosis....

I have to wonder if misdiagnosis sometimes make 'the problem' worse (beyond pill popping for nothing). What happens in a childs mind when he's told something is wrong with him (told he can't control it), but he can't comprehend what is meant by that? Self control was a learned virtue once upon a time. Now if you're not born with it, you need medication.

Now kids think, after sinning, "I'm not a sinner... my design is flawed, it's not my fault at all..."

Dh thinks all this explaining away of "naughtiness/sin" is just a cop out for humanism. So he rolls his eyes whenever someone who's say, killed a loved one, tries to defend their act of murder by saying they have a brain defect.

[Madre]

Very ticklish subject! I tend to agree with your dh, Rachel. I'm also beginning to veer away from any terms used to explain human behaviour that aren't biblical. However, I don't think we can deny that chemicals affect behaviour. Anyone who has seen their child bounce off the walls after drinking a soda would agree. :roll: I've seen it in myself. If I eat too much sugar or caffeine I can get edgey and emotional.

A child can learn to control himself at a very young age. Allowing all sorts of emotional outbursts or prolonged crying isn't necessary. What I think we're seeing today are the results of permissive parenting. Children need to learn that they are not the center of everything and that they won't always get what they want. (And, for sure, they won't get anything they cry and whine for.)

Yeah... a LOT of peopel aren't bringing up their kids, whether it's due to lazyness, lack of time, was harder than it cracked up to be ....

Some of it I do blame on institutionalised child care, I mean how do people expect a child to turn out when there is 10 children to 1 adult, no one on one time and children are often there from 6am to 6pm?


I too know A LOT of Christians who refuse to bring up their children, or.

I saw children that stayed 6-6 all the time...Part of the reason I was so disliked was that I actually enjoyed working with children...some, not all, but some of the teachers were just there for an "easy paycheck" where as I don't see childcare as easy at all! Some parents just leave their children all the time partially because I don't think they even know* their own kids..Even on days they had off of work or when they were on a vacation, they would STILL leave their children..Thats just sad.

[BigChill]

I'm not sure, some of what I read is convincing, other stuff seems pretty out there.

I think that part of it is that there is so much more crap out there that you can feed your kids - diet may certainly be part of it - or exacerbate certain symptoms. However, I think ultimately it's more of an environmental thing, as well as docs and parents being quick to look for a "cure" to a problem that 25 years ago might not have been seem in the same light.

BUT what about all these other disorders ODD (opposition defiance disorder), etc etc.


:shock: :roll: They really have a disorder called that? Oh my. It sounds like an excuse to me for just plain old defiance! Anyway, I know that ADD and ADHD are real. But I have to just laugh at "ODD". :roll: :oops: I hope I don't offend anyone here.

I think sugar makes kids hyper and I guess certain food colourings or additives could too. But I don't believe they make a child naughty JMO I ate tons of sugary foods as a child and I never played up afterwards.

I notice Abby gets very active :lol: after she has a drink of Milo or some chocolate (on special occasions only!) but she doesn't get naughty as such.

[justmeNmine]

I was waiting to get to the bottom of the thread so i could make the same comment about ODD, and I'm sorry if anyone here has a child who has this diagnosis- I have a good friend who has literally taken her son from doctor to doctor, looking for a diagnosis/cure and not hearing every time, that it's her lack of parenting skills and/or all the disorder and chaos in his you life... Finally, she got a doctor to say ODD and it's like she breathesa great sigh of relief that he has a problem- she managed to get them to throw in ADHD as well, but funny thing, when he spends the night/day with me, no symptoms.... and no defiance either??? I think they should change the name to LOR- LACK OF RESPECT!

I realize I'm ranting- I just feel so badly for the child in this situation to have to live with (IMO) an inappropriate label... anyway, I don't know much about additives in food- I guess I don't pay a lot of attention to the do's and don'ts of eating- The Food Guide Pyramid is about as far as I go, and common sense, but I don't know of any foods in particular that cause naughtiness- it is lack of parenting/training/respect.

[SpiritFilledMomof2]

I don't believe that food additives will cause your child to be "naughty" however I do believe that they may contribute to behavioural changes in children. Such as sugar linked to hyperactivity, etc. It seems that there is a lot more ADD, autism and other disorders that are being diagnosed than there were many years ago. There are also a lot more processed foods on the market than there were back then. Just seems too coincidental to me, although I'm not a scientist. I do believe that in today's society there are a lot of parents that don't want to take the time or responsibility to parent properly and would rather dope their kids up with these drugs. I'm not saying that there is no such thing as ADD, but I do believe that it gets diagnosed way too often.
I don't blame my dd's defiance on her diet. It's her flesh acting out, however when she's eaten certain foods she can be more difficult to deal with. Ultimately it's a matter of heart. It's my responsibilty and privilage as her parent to teach her proper respect, behaviour, etc. and to discipline when necessary. God has blessed me with tools to use in my parenting. No one said it was going to be easy, but it takes persistence and consistency. I saw children that stayed 6-6 all the time...Part of the reason I was so disliked was that I actually enjoyed working with children...some, not all, but some of the teachers were just there for an "easy paycheck" where as I don't see childcare as easy at all! Some parents just leave their children all the time partially because I don't think they even know* their own kids..Even on days they had off of work or when they were on a vacation, they would STILL leave their children..Thats just sad.
I also worked in preschool with 2 year olds. It was just horrible the things I saw these children going through. Yes, it is quite sad that these children were forced to stay in this center for such a long period of time. It seems as though other people were raising these children.
I just have to beg the question... the Bible does speak of the spirit of lawlessness in the last days - do you all believe this is part and parcel of that? Yes, it probably is. You see it everywhere, tv, movies, etc. We live in a very different society then we did 30 years ago. Attitudes are different. The world encourages a very self centered attitude with no accountability. Our children are very precious, however are not exempt from being attacked in these end times.

Anyway, this is just my 2 cents worth, take it or leave it :D

I found it very interesting and cool that you mentioned HUMANISM Rachel, I had NEVER thought of that concept and linked the two. Makes so much sense.

I forgot to add something else I read in the newspaper on the weekend also that 10 in 100 children have autism and there is a HUGE leap in this disorder and related disorders... I feel so sorry for parents who's children have genuine autism it is such a heart breaking and sad disease... however when I read the author stating that the symptoms of this new wave of prevailant autism are "self centredness, no empathy for other human beings, anti social behaviour" mmm... to me that's not actually Autism in the sense of the disease where a child genuinely cannot help being locked in their own private world and is genuinely disabled.

TO say 10 in 100 children have it also... :?: :?: -

[mamaroo]

I believe diet can be responsible for the extreme behaviors these days, these diets are not only effecting our children, but each of us as well. There is hidden sugar in just about everything!!! I try to shop carefully, but it quite difficult to check everything.

The reason I check things is because I am sensitive to msg. Its in soups, crackers, prepackeaged meats, all sorts of places.

My daughter can't have any fruit juice drinks without becoming uncontrolable. We give her plenty of fresh fruit, but she just can't handle fruit juice.

I admit I don't always eat healthy. We like hot dogs, pizza, and ice cream; I also use frozen dinners when I have to work late. I feel the affects these foods have on my body. I might be more lethargic or irritable after eating these less healthy foods. Which will directly affect how I am with my familly. I'm not sure if its the additives, the carbs, or just lack of vitamins in todays foods, but I believe that our diets over the past few decades might have something to do with the bahavior of our children.

[crys]

I'm the mom of seven kids and certainly am not an expert. I do know that God made us and that what we do (and consume) needs to be within his will for us.

When we hold our babies and feed them, their little brains are physically changed. Neuro-pathways are formed that enable them to trust. Years ago, we didn't know how a parent's actions changed wee brains, but now we do. Similarly, we didn't know about ADD, ODD and the like.

I'm not of the "blame the mother/father" school. The Bible says "Judge not" and that's a good thing, since I have a lot to work on. :D I do have kids with labels and special needs, and I thank God for them. Each of them is made in His image and is wonderfully made. I don't question Him, but learn daily from them.

Moms with kids like mine ache when they hear what sounds like judgement or disbelief, as all moms would in things concerning our children. Curiousity is good, but judgement is a fearsome thing. When a mom says her child has an allergy to dye, or autism or a broken leg, we must respond as Christ would, right? Compassion is key.

I know the moms here care deeply and seek to understand. God bless you!

Crys

[luvmy4sons]

.

I forgot to add something else I read in the newspaper on the weekend also that 10 in 100 children have autism and there is a HUGE leap in this disorder and related disorders...-

I think some of the vaccines are related to our increase in autism and other symdroms! Just my opinion. And I do think there are real causes between food allergies and additives and behavior issues. The key is that doesn't eliminate your responsiblity to control your behavior and learn how to deal with your children's as well. ADHD is REAL! I have two sons with it, but I still expect them to be respectful and behaved. They have to work harder and so do I, but we don't throw up our hands and say, " Oh well he has ADHD."

I do think we should have compassion as crys says in the last post. But I don't think anyone was judging per say, but just noting a trend in society to blame the bad behavior of their children on other issues instead of taking responsiblity for it. The behavior could be caused by food and allergies and they could have ADHD or ODD, but if the parents are doing nothing but playing hte blame game and not admonishing their children and training them and teaching them and disciplining them, they certainly do need our sympathy but some exhortation and wisdom as well.

[kanaclark]

In my opinion, ADD, autism, touret's, etc. do exist. some effected worse than others, but I think we live in a society where it's easier to "label" some kids rather than raise them.

I think ADD and ADHD are the most commonly over labeled conditions. True ADD and ADHD are NOT effected by intake of sugar and things.
All kids will act up when they have lots of sugar. The body's way of metabolizing sugar and caffeine both result in a quick surge followed by a terrible down feeling. and since children can't convey feelings well, they do tend of act up when they are "coming down". that's normal.

[crys]

I do believe there is a tendency to blame the diagnosis instead of taking responsibliity. We all do it, and not just with our kids. "That time of the month" and "being cooped up with sick kids" can bring out the worst of behaviour in moms. We all understand those times and can encourage each other to overcome, take a break, etc.

A mom who is muttering about ADD as we all endure a tantrum from her kid needs the same kind of encouragement. She could be excusing herself from the behaviour or asking not to be blamed. I remember a woman being lectured by an older woman in the mall washroom. The older woman took exception to the three year old not being toilet trained!

There is no industry standard for momhood, so we constantly watch other moms, sometimes feeling superiour and sometimes feeling like we'll never measure up. Oh, I'm so thankful that I can be assured of my acceptance and that my efforts are accepted by God.

He is the one who gently leads me from blame to action and gives me wisdom. I'm so thankful for science and that the doctors can diagnose kids with things that would have been missed years ago. The diagnosis can give direction and motivation, as well as help people understand the child and parents.

True story: When my Joseph was three, we were at the mall. We had walked the loop, and made a purchase. Joseph was non-verbal and diagnosed with PDD (autism). We rounded a corner and before I could stop him, he tackled a sign and stand, sending it to the ground with a resounding crash! I fought back the tears, as I was still mourning that this child was 'not perfect'. As I righted the sign and knelt by the screeching boy, two small feet appeared in my line of vision.

I looked up to see a child from Joseph's preschool, who was joined by his mother. God knew what was in my heart.

The small boy smiled up to his mom and said, "This is Joseph, mummy. He's my friend."

In love,

Crys

[kanaclark]

oh the hearts of children. we should be more like them so often.

it's so easy for us to judge, complain, etc. but small kids often haven't learned to complain yet, and they can only look at face value.

Praise The Lord that God sent this "angel" to you when you needed it most.

[crys]

That's so true. No wonder Jesus blessed the children and set them up as an example for us!

And isn't God so faithful? :)

Crys

[luvmy4sons]

.

True story: When my Joseph was three, we were at the mall. We had walked the loop, and made a purchase. Joseph was non-verbal and diagnosed with PDD (autism). We rounded a corner and before I could stop him, he tackled a sign and stand, sending it to the ground with a resounding crash! I fought back the tears, as I was still mourning that this child was 'not perfect'. As I righted the sign and knelt by the screeching boy, two small feet appeared in my line of vision.

I looked up to see a child from Joseph's preschool, who was joined by his mother. God knew what was in my heart.

The small boy smiled up to his mom and said, "This is Joseph, mummy. He's my friend."

In love,

Crys

Out of the mouth of babes....That is a neat story Crys. I thank you for your compassion and mercy that I hear in your post. We all need more of it and all need to show more of it as well. I have two sons who are often " in trouble" and I work diligently night and day to train them up. The key is not to judge even when we see kids misbehaving because we have no idea what the family is going through and what steps are or are not being taken. I desire mercy...the Lord says. And don't we all have enough to do taking care of our own without worrying over what others should or should not be doing with theirs!

Leslie, you hit the nail on the head so well!

[danou]

As a teacher in public school it becomes so easy to be discouraged and pass judgement... however here are some of my observations:
- a bright child who is consistently fed low nutrition/high sugar/additives food can not and does not perform to his/her potential and often manifests add-like symptoms.
- proper nutrition in a matter of a few days makes an incrediable difference- noticable in the 7 year old himself.

- parenting add/adhd/odd kids is hard work- alot of support is required.

- many add/adhd-like symptoms manifest for other health and environment reasons (parenting style, allergies, nutrition etc)

- true add/adhd (despite good environement and structured parenting) responds very well to medication and is a blessing to the child him/herself- not just the adults in his/her life. We don't criticize/judge/look down on diabetics for taking insulin.

- most children act differently when at school or with other adults (not parents)- so to say that he/she doesn't do this with me and therefore must not have add/adhd/odd-whatever is imo a sweeping generalization that can be explained away by many other things.

- it can be very frustrating to see the effects of certain parenting styles- namely a lack of viable consequences when a child disobeys or a lack of expecting a child to obey. Nothing disrupts a classroom faster than Johnny or Jane who thinks the rules don't apply to them or who think that they can choose when they obey/listen. Those children also end up being the children who "love me- their strict teacher - the most".

- Christ as the pp said wants us to meet people/children where they are at and respond to them with compassion and love- regardless of their circumstances.

Ok - i've ranted long enough. I just wanted to give you my two-cents.
Looks like you got more than two-cents... :)