Immunisation

Does anyone still immunise? I probably had two immunisations done on my twins when they were babies and then decided against it because they would get so sick afterwards and I was left dealing with two miserable babies and it just wasn't the time for it. I always thought that I would get it done when they were older, but never have - just time flies by - now I actually wonder if it is of any TRUE benefit, I mean the media keep talking about all these superbugs that we are now powerless against, so I think "if virus' and diseases continue to mutate once people think they have conquered them, then is immunisation really of any true benefit?"

I know nautropaths are against it but I really don't put too much stock in anything they say because I know more than one person who has followed their advice and ended up with worse consequences to their problems.

It came to mind today when I was in having an antenatal appointment and there was a newborn having his first immunisations, usually babies cry and then stop, this one went nuts and vomited everywhere and kept screaming for the whole 20 minutes I was still in the surgery, almost like he was having a reaction.

So what does everyone else do? What are the trends in the US?

[meg]

We've had our boys immunised. Eldest had no reactions at all. Youngest had swelling at the site of the needle for a couple of days, but that was it.

I have read pros and cons, and feel comfortable with the decision we have made. From what I know, the superbugs are a result of too many antibiotics being prescribed, not a result of immunisations, but that's just what I've read.

The biggest problem I find is that a lot of people are very alarmist, either pro or con, and drag out the most horrific complications they can find. No matter what you decide, there will be people who think it's the wrong thing, and quote statistics at you :?

Yes, children can have reactions, horrible reactions, to vaccines. But, they can also die from some of the diseases the vaccines prevent. Above all, trust in God. The best you can do is pray, trust in God, and do what you feel is best for your children.

Yeah I know what you are saying about everyone gets extreme totally!!!

And yeah you are right the superbugs are from the antibiotics in EVERYTHING... (not just from doctors overprescribing them but they are also in meat and poultry, so people are basically overdosing on antibiotics)

I may just wait until the new baby is older, say about 1 before I start immunising if I decide too.

BTW Meg what part of Australia are you in? We are near Mandurah, WA

[meg]

We live in Sydney :)

[AmyB]

Both of my kids were immunized, with no adverse reactions.

[cjropher]

I immunize my boys. The first time I got my eldest done, I came home and there was an article there about adverse effects of immunizations. That was scary to read right then. I know there can be side effects and I struggle with it and end up just trusting God.

I think that it was mentioned on the old forums and I can't remember by whom, but someone said that they knew someone whose baby died or almost died because she was exposed to some sort of diesease that people are usually immunized against. The baby was too young to be immunized at the time, so her only protection would be for others to be immunized. The woman who wrote this had said that she was glad she had immunzied her kids because she would have felt so bad if her kids had passed it on. I hope I told that story right!

Also, a friend of mine had considering at least postponing immunizations until her babies were over a year. The dr. told her that was fine but not to bother getting them done after that. The most serious one of the diseases now is whooping cough and if it's going to kill someone, it will be a baby. The other diseases are pretty unlikely for you to catch nowadays I understand.

That being said, I do not get my family flu shots. A little girl in Calgary died a few years ago from them so I don't! Hmmm, yet I will against other stuff. I don't know why I'm so against the flu shot. My mom won't touch it and maybe I just learned from her. My dad gets it and is glad he does. I guess I have no good reason, I just don't go for that one. Maybe when the pandemic that everyone is saying comes, our family will have built up our own immune system from being exposed to all the bugs out there. Likely not scientifically sound!

Abby is up to date on all hers. We didn't get Chicken Pox done though... it's not free here it costs about $80. And we didn't get Flu done either because it's also not free. But she has had all the others including Meningococcal B.
No reactions except with Men B she had a hard lump under the skin for like over a month. But it eventually disappeared. The nurse said it was normal and would go away on it's own.

[Godzgirl]

I had my daughter get immunization up until she was 1 (she is now 2). Me and dh did some research and decided it wasn't for us. With our son we are not going to get him vaccinated at all. When all is said in done they are in the Lord's hands.

[stephwhiz]

I had both of my kids immunized and keep their immunizations up-to-date. We believe that the pros for them outweigh the cons by far. Stephanie

[jaimestitches]

yep, I live in Ohio. both of my children have been fully immunized and are good until they enter the 7th grade...

[ChelleFish]

We have done our boy and will keep him up to date.

He has never had a reaction to any of the shots.

Not only has whooping cough popped up lately, but the MUMPS have been rampant here in Iowa this year!! Enough for the department of health to declare it an epidemic.

[4HisGlory]

Just as a little side note, where I am in northern CA we have had many whopping cough and Rubella cases come up in many babies, which hadn't happened often before. It seems to be rising. The one thing to keep in mind is some of the vaccines are made with egg, so if your baby is allergic to egg let them know before getting the shot. Also Meningylcoccol (for meningitis) vaccine would be a good one for kids in school, you mostly find it in college dorms, but it can be passed VERY easily from kids who are in close range. We are a college town and we get a few cases every year, and it is very devistating. It leads to at the very least amputation of limbs, and more likly death...which is sad since there is a vaccine. it presents itself as flu like symptoms. just an FYI

[mommyb]

Both of my kids have been immunized.

[tobikay]

My son was immunized for all his shots until 6th grade, and dd got her first 2 years worth, then I learned what I was doing and have scince stopped. Unless something major changes, they will not recieve any more immunizations.

Other than the egg problem, remember that those vaccines contain mercury. Too much mercury can cause major neurological problems, especelly in infants. How much is too much? Who knows, all children seen to have different threshholds. An amount that child A has no problem with, but potencially push child B over the edge. And take into account any mercury that may have already been passed to the baby from mommy in the food she ate.

These are just my opinions. I look at the incidents of autism, ADHD, asthma, servere allergies, learning difficulties and more and then I look at what has changed in our society in the last few years...the things I notice the most are the amount of vaccinations we give our young children, and the perservitives and hormones in our food. Then I see that these problems facing our babies are all potiencial side effects of thes things...hmmmm.

[tracy]

I agree.
Dd is not being immunized. I think there are too many vacs required by age 2. I've read a few places that gov research showed it is less expensive to have the chickenpox vac then to have parents take time off work. And there are so many different strains of each disease. The Suntimes recently printed an article that the flu shot protects against 3 (out of 200) of the most popular flu's they think people will get each year. Not much of a guarantee.
There's also aluminum, some form of the disease, and other, well, gross things in the vacs.

[Rach]

Other than the egg problem, remember that those vaccines contain mercury. Too much mercury can cause major neurological problems, especelly in infants. How much is too much? Who knows, all children seen to have different threshholds. An amount that child A has no problem with, but potencially push child B over the edge. And take into account any mercury that may have already been passed to the baby from mommy in the food she ate.

These are just my opinions. I look at the incidents of autism, ADHD, asthma, servere allergies, learning difficulties and more and then I look at what has changed in our society in the last few years...the things I notice the most are the amount of vaccinations we give our young children, and the perservitives and hormones in our food. Then I see that these problems facing our babies are all potiencial side effects of thes things...hmmmm.

None of the shots our children have had contained mercury! Ask your ped office to see the bottle. It is listed as thimerisol in the ingredients.

We do all the vaxes except flu, because flu does have it.

I think that preservatives, hormones, pollution, second hand smoke, and processed food are wayyyyyyyy worse than a few shots. I may be biased tho none of my boys had reactions.

[cjropher]

I agree.
Dd is not being immunized. I think there are too many vacs required by age 2. I've read a few places that gov research showed it is less expensive to have the chickenpox vac then to have parents take time off work. And there are so many different strains of each disease. The Suntimes recently printed an article that the flu shot protects against 3 (out of 200) of the most popular flu's they think people will get each year. Not much of a guarantee.
There's also aluminum, some form of the disease, and other, well, gross things in the vacs.

Funny you should say that. I just heard yesterday up here that some virus, the rivo virus or something like that affects kids really bad (not deathly usually, just really sick) and they want to get a vaccine and put it in with the 6 month shots because of how much time is taken off work to deal with the sickness. It's one thing to have an immunization to something that is usually always fatal and can cause epidemics. They don't give it anymore, but smallpox for example (I think it was nearly always fatal). But to give a vaccine because of days off work??? It's going to far. I asked about the chicken pox vaccine with ds (it's free here) and was told it's not so much to prevent chicken pox but to prevent shingles later which you can only get if you've had chicken pox. But they don't even know how long the vaccine will last yet so our poor kids could end up getting it when they are older and when it hits worse. I don't do any vaccine I have to pay for. Reading this, I should know exactly what I'm getting shots for, I know polio but none of the others. Oh, whooping cough and some others. That's awful. I'll have to pay more attention :oops:

[tobikay]

Rach, I hope you are right. From what I read last summer on the CDC website however, the amount is simply being reduced. There is something, I am sorry that I don't remember, and I don't have time now to go surfing all over, but something like they were using it differently....didn't have to list it on the ingrediant label but still used it somehow, and it still showed up in the vax in trace quanities. I wish I had the time and energy to check this out..I will later!

OK, I did, unfortunately I couldn't find what I was looking for. What I did find is a statement saying that trace amounts of thimerosil don't have to be listed on the ingrediant list of vaxs lables "thimerosil free". I also found that they keep saying that it is not used "as a perservative", not that it is not used at all. I also read a page listing vagely the effect of even the smallest mercury exposure, especally to infants and toddlers, then I read that it is safe in vax??????

One last thing about the flu vax. It does contain thimersol. On top of the fact that it is only effective on a few of the many many strains of flu out there, it is based on last years virus, not the current one. Thinersol is used so that they can package the vax in containers containing multiple doses instead of individual vials. This way, the conatiner can be punctured multiple times, for multiple doses without contaminating it.

I hope I am not stepping on toes here, but I do feel passionately about this...

[tracy]

I would like to encourage some to check out the vacs. There is an overwhelming amount of info, as I found out, but I feel more comfortable feeling a little more informed.
I started when I was pregnant because I found out about the chickenpox vac. I thought it was insane to need that, especially since you need a booster ever 10yrs forever! I think all vacs only last a few-10yrs. I think if there were only 6-8 like when I was little (now there's at least 20!) I probably wouldn't even have thought about it. Things like Hep B are bloodborne & sexually transmitted. http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5416a1.htm?s_cid=rr5416a1_e I dunno. I guess things are just different now.
BTW, there is aluminum in vacs, I think to replace most of the mercury.

[Godzgirl]

We found out alot of info on this website http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html after watching a Kent Hovind (dr. dino) DVD. On the DVD he also talks about a phone number that you can call (the people that make the vaccines) and actually ask if they use embroys for some of the vaccines and they will tell you yes! That is what actually did it for me. The reason i decided not vaccinate my daughter anymore. Not to mention all of the other junk they put in vaccines! When i talked to my daughter's doctor (discussion about why i'm not vaccinating my daughter) he was telling me that he believed vaccines are needed and that will protect children. Then i asked him what about the children that get affected by vaccines. He didn't answer right away and didn't really have an answer for me and just said that it's only a few children out of thousands so it doesn't matter. That the pro's still out weight the con's but i wonder does the mother of a child that was affected by vaccines or died from them feel that way?! I don't think so!!! So bottom line it's all in the Lord's hands. And i guess anyway you see it both sides are taking a chance. I just chose not to after doing my research.

[Rach]

well what if you were one of the moms of these children?

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/background/2003/back5/en/index.html

You can find a lot of support for both sides, so in the end it's a personal choice.

I agree with you, godzgirl2 , it is in God's hands and we need to listen and obey. He has a plan for each of us.

[JoyLynn]

I'm not sure how I feel about this subject. I'm kinda on the fence. All my babies had their well-child visits and shots, but I only fully vaxed my oldest two. The younger two stopped going after the first year and they haven't seen a doctor since. They're now 6 and 9. The kids are homeschooled so I haven't had to face this dilemma head on. I keep telling myself that I'll finish getting them vaxed, but then I'm not sure... I want to do my part in keeping the spread of disease down, but I'm just not totally sure. I'll probably do it and trust the Lord to protect them from the risks. I'm glad diseases like Polio are almost obsolete these days.

Joy [welcomewave]

[emilyrosejewel]

Justice has had all of his shots. Like someone else said there is support for either direction and studies have been done which go either way. I just feel more comfortable having him receive the protection available.

[love2mom]

The only vaccine I was a bit concerned about wat the chicken pox one. When it was first introduced, they were using human fetus in the starter; now they use whatever it is from bovine (cow), so I had both boys done.

I was okay with the boys just being exposed to chicken pox, but the health nurse said with the vaccine, it eliminates the risk of getting shingles as an adult (which is apparently incredibly painful), so we went with it.

No side effects with any of the shots (or pokes as Evan calls them). Not worried about it. Here they hand them out at 2,4,6,12 & 18mos., and then just before kindergarten (5ish). Does seem to be a lot, but my kids don't have allergies or health concerns etc. so I haven't had cause for alarm.

[tracy]

I don't think the children's vaccine eliminates the risk of getting shingles as an adult.

[cjropher]

I don't think the children's vaccine eliminates the risk of getting shingles as an adult.

They likely don't know yet because the vaccine is so new. The idea is that if you don't get chicken pox, you can't get shingles. They are related somehow. I don't know much about it but that's what the doctor told me when my son was around the age to get his.

[mommyb]

I was told shingles are when you get chickenpox (or the virus I guess?) for the 2nd time. Anyone know for sure?

[AmyB]

I was told shingles are when you get chickenpox (or the virus I guess?) for the 2nd time. Anyone know for sure?

What is Shingles?
Shingles (herpes zoster) are an outbreak of rash or blisters on the skin that is caused by the same virus that causes chicken pox - the varicella-zoster virus. The first sign of shingles is often burning or tingling pain, or sometimes numbness, in or under the skin. You may also feel ill with fever, chills, headache, or upset stomach. After several days, a rash of small fluid-filled blisters, reminiscent of chickenpox, appears on reddened skin. The pain associated with shingles can be intense and is often described as "unrelenting." Anyone who has had chickenpox is at risk for shingles. Scientists think that in the original battle with varicella-zoster, some of the virus particles leave the skin blisters and move into the nervous system. When the varicella-zoster virus reactivates, the virus moves back down the long nerve fibers that extend from the sensory cell bodies to the skin and cause the characteristic blisters of shingles .

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/shingles/shingles.htm

[JoyLynn]

My mom had that. It sounds just awful!

Joy [welcomewave]

[Crissyanna]

My dad never had the chicken pox. But he has had shingles.

I worked as a teacher and at a day care. In IL, they made it mandatory that your kid gets the chicken pox vax. I was like, that is insane.

In MO here, they give the chicken pox between 18 months and 2 years. Each of the kids I know of who have gotten it recently, have come down with some form of it. I remember it being a school-aged thing (I had it in first, gave it to my little sis when she was four). We were old enough to remember to not scratch (well, that much, I do still have a few scars), but a two year old can't handle it, IMO. They are totally miserable.

I personally know a family whose son devolped normally. He got his shots at two, and then he started to regress. He finally got diagnosed with an austism spectrum disorder, and no one could figure out why this kid was normal until just after two years of age. His family blames the vax. I don't know, but it is a possibility.

I didn't know about mercury in the vax. Nor the aluminum. That is going to take some serious thinking. And talking with Hubby. I wish you could pick and choose which ones to give (like mumps and whooping cough and the ones for the deadly diseases). But it is pretty much an all or nothing thing where I am from. Whatever happened to parental authority and control? I wonder how much of the decision of making all these vax mandatory was motivated by the drug companies to make more money? Just a thought. Don't beat me with it please. It was just a sudden one. I know that vax can be very controversial.

Crystal

[tobikay]

The amount of mercury in the vax was greatly reduced about 7 years ago. I am very very very courious to see what happens to the rate of autism, ADHD, asthma etc etc in the next 5 years. Also, I can't wait to see how school performance changes as these kids come "of age".

[Crissyanna]

Even if the amount of mercury has been reduced, why is that us pregnant people are advised to abstain from eating any kind of fish with a higher merucry level? And even the low level mecury fish are to be avoided. That is what I have been told. If mercury will damage the baby's brain and nervous system before it is born, why would it be any different for the vax? That's my question. I think our kid's peditrician is going to hate me. I will press him/her (have to choose one, need to find one on the insurance plan). This is my child's welfare we are talking about. Oh well.

Crystal

[tobikay]

Crystal, I agree completely. I have never understood the logic of all that. Here is what I have been told by those who "know"... appearently the body can tolerate a certain level of mercury before damage is done. What that level is veries from person to person, there is no way to find out how much is too much until it is too late.. Therefore, if you have an infant, who has a lower tolerance, mommy ate alittle fish containing mercury while pregnant, then Dr. gave him vax with more mercury, all this adds up to his threshold and bad things happen. Now look at another infant with a higher threshold in the exact same circumstances, nothing happens.

[tracy]

FYI, since I plan on having at least one more baby, I've been told to be careful on how much mercury from fish I eat because the mercury stays in the body for 4yrs.

Embryos? you mean HUMAN ones?

I was told they make the vaccines up with stuff like horse semen. It is such a hard call to make because natropaths I think can tend to be a BIT over the top, they claim it is all the pharmaseutical companies driving people to have vaccines so they can make money, and it is all about making money but on the other hand I think... well natropaths use paranoia to sell tonics and pills that I have NEVER heard one person who has used a natropath say they have had any benefit from.

It's almost a catch 22 whatever way you look at it.

I am actually going to the doctor soon to see about the whole issue again because the twins are due to start kindy next year and if they don;t have the needles I have to fill out a concientious objection form to enroll them in school. ALSO... the Australian Government PAYS parents to have their children fully immunised by the age of 18 months. - There must be a good reason for doing that??? It's so hard.

I recall now why we stopped immunising aside from having two extremely cranky sick babies after the fact, Jackson wasn't walking by age two, and we began to worry he had autism because he was a loaner, etc and we were worried this was caused by prior needles (PIL were preaching that immunisation causes autism so that is what got us thinking on those lines)... but he turned out to be a perfectly normal little boy who was just relaxed about his milestones. He walked after he turned 2 when he was good and ready to walk.

Then what can I say, time flew by...

[Jx2]

I have immunized both of my kids.