Is it typical for oldests to be self-centered emotionally? I mean, she can be soooo giving and comes to my rescue when I need her, without me even asking. And then there's days like today when she seems so selfish and self-centered. I mean, I know we *all* struggle with being self-centered. I think it stands out more because it's so unlike her! I just don't know how to redirect it. Got any ideas? My knee-jerk reaction is to get angry with her, so I just wait to handle it. But then I don't know *how* to handle it. I'm up for insight, your personal experience, advice... anything! :)

i'm an oldest and i'm incredibly selfish, haha

maybe she just needs some "me" time? have you asked her why she is behaving this way? (in a non-confrontational way of course). i have no experience as my kids aren't that old, but i'm curious as to what she would say about her own actions/feelings. kids can come from left field sometimes lol

She is 9, yes? I think that is old enough for a heart-to-heart when you are both calm about how sometimes our acting out of our own selfish interests without stopping to think of others can be hurtful.
BUT to be fair, the oldest usually does have the most responsibility and is expected to mature more quickly than all the little ones that come after, even when those little ones hit the same age the oldest is now. So N. is right, she probably does need some time to just do her own thing OR maybe she wants some mommy-and-me or daddy-and-me time to make her feel like even though she is the biggest, she is still your baby, too. When you talk to her she will probably tell you :-D

Even though both dh and I were the oldest in our families so we know how it is, sometimes I have to stop and remind myself that my oldest is still just a little kid and it takes time to learn how to manage all the emotions we feel and successfully fight all the fleshy things even adults struggle with and I need to ease up a little sometimes. Why do I always type so much? I need an editor, lol.

Even though both dh and I were the oldest in our families so we know how it is, sometimes I have to stop and remind myself that my oldest is still just a little kid and it takes time to learn how to manage all the emotions we feel and successfully fight all the fleshy things even adults struggle with and I need to ease up a little sometimes.

I could have written this word-for-word.

Jen, my Valorie & Rebekah started that at 9 too [whatwacko] both of them started their periods at the age of 9 almost 10 :( That was a tough change for them.

Idk if its typical for oldests per say, but I think it can be 'typical' for many or most kids to go thru this. For all kinds of reasons really. Nine is about when my girls started being noticeably selfish, or when I was like 'Wha!! Where's my lovely child gone!!' It was about the time we moved down here and on the one hand they handled it beautifully but otoh they both (and one more then the other) started being really nasty and snarky and rather disrespectful, cheeky is what Id call it. She started giving me cheek. My kids arent generally selfish kids by a LONG shot, but they go thru stages throughout the year where Im finding I have to be firmer with them. It used to be that they'd get a spank (I started doing that again in moderation once I learned to control my own temper ;)). Now that they are 11, they will be grounded, and once one of my girls did get a spank over the summer bc her attitude wasnt so nice (and when I say wasnt so nice, that really means quite horrendous towards everyone... but then again whats horrendous for my kids isnt whats horrendous by any stretch of the imagination in another child who is a spoilt lil monster). After that I STILL had to ground her FOR REAL. I tend to be quite soft, I dont always want them to miss playing on a sunny day, lol (we dont always get many sunny days!!!) so I let them off early. I was SO fed up with their attitude and how they treated each other that I grounded them for real for two days this summer. One hadnt been so bad so she was grounded for one full day, the other was grounded for two, IN their room, NO playing or fun of any kind, they were allowed to read and that was it. That really sorted them out for the rest of the summer. Thats what did the trick. Made them realise they were being horrible. I made them write a list of why it had come to that to reinforce why I was grounding them.

hth...

She's been the oldest and helping you for quite awhile and you are certainly 'little one' preoccupied and looking to add more...this can be very hard for the oldest who can start to resent helping out so much or that her main contact with you is helping out with youngers or taking a backseat to little ones and their high demand needs.....it builds.
I suggest some PROTECTED nothing stops it one on one time with her that you put on the calendar with her and she can see the protected time and see you attempting to value her needs/importance as well....have it be a reoccurring thing on the calendar she can count on.....just two hours a week even....but then ONLY she gets that time with you, trade which parent spends it with her if she wants and the other parent takes the other kids AWAY or you go away with her so you aren't interrupted......do your nails, go for a special bike ride and ice cream....whatever.....just focus on her.
A good start to keeping the lines of communication and hurt down for all of you.

I gotta say, we don't run our family, "oldest helps the youngest." we just don't. Emma and Helen have their own chores, just like holly and cally do, but beyond that... There is no big girls minding little girls, or cleaning up after them or anything. If they do anything, it's voluntarily. We had friends come over a few years ago, and they forced their oldest girl to watch their baby and mind him... And I thought to myself, "but she's just a baby herself!!! And she didn't ask for that child to be born?! How unfair!" that made me realize that I did not ever want to do that to my children. From the time my kids are three, they are required to do their own clean up and such. Emma has little responsibility, believe me. We were just talking about how to give her MORE to help her feel needed in the family, but have it be something unrelated to caring for our little ones.

I have talked to her about it, calmly, and she says she doesn't know why she acts that way, that she knows it is hurtful, but that sometimes "she can't help but act that way". I get it... I act ways I wouldn't like and it seeeeeems I can't help it. Maybe this is just pre-hormonal swings? Hhhmmm....

I forgot to add, I do have one on one time with each of my girls each week... Which is more than I can say for when it was just emma and Helen. Our time management has gotten much better. But, I can see where there is room for improvement in even that area.... Thanks gals for all your words.

I would say more than anything it's hormonal. Keep up with the talks and the mommy/daughter time. Continue to (as nicely as you can manage) point out when she's behaving in that negative manner...ask if she thinks she needs to go to her 'quiet place' for a while and get things under control.

I know *I* need to do that...and I send my kids to do the same. Mine, being boys, I think slightly lessens the chance of them being aware..so I just inform them they have the wrong attitude and need to get it in check. If not cleared up shortly I tell them they need to remove themselves for a while and work on changing the attitude. They can come back up in 10 minutes if they can function better.

After a few times of that, I simply point out the attitude and ask if they need to remove themselves, leaving it in their court, unless the attitude increases or continues much longer with no sign of attempt to control...then I shoo them downstairs...or out for a run.

But for a girl...yeah...I think around 9 is their first big hormonal phase...and we CAN feel completely out of control when those things hit, right? LOL

For my boys it's around 11..11-13 is rocky :p Yay...I have 2 there right now *rolls eyes*

Just keep hangin' in there mama.

I gotta say, we don't run our family, "oldest helps the youngest." we just don't. Emma and Helen have their own chores, just like holly and cally do, but beyond that... There is no big girls minding little girls, or cleaning up after them or anything. If they do anything, it's voluntarily. We had friends come over a few years ago, and they forced their oldest girl to watch their baby and mind him... And I thought to myself, "but she's just a baby herself!!! And she didn't ask for that child to be born?! How unfair!" that made me realize that I did not ever want to do that to my children. From the time my kids are three, they are required to do their own clean up and such. Emma has little responsibility, believe me. We were just talking about how to give her MORE to help her feel needed in the family, but have it be something unrelated to caring for our little ones.

I like this, I feel the same way... it bothers me when I see families where the olders are required to be little parents to the younger ones. I'm not opposed to the oldest ones helping/babysitting sometimes, but they certainly shouldn't be required to do so all the time, as they are just kids too! Not to derail the thread but that's one major beef I have with a lot of books that are "christian, homeschool, quiverfull" centered is that they talk about how hard it is when your kids are young, but when they get older then "blam" it's easy, because then the older children are able to help out more with the younger, but it seems to me that that is the mom pushing off her responsibilities on the children... kwim?? I'm sure it gets easier anyway if you are giving your kids age-appropriate chores, but it seems like a lot of them consider their older children full time babysitters and maids, lol.

Yeah, I agree. I don't like seven, eight or even nine year olds being required to help out like that. To me, it isn't helping at that point... I don't know what to call it. Anyway... I knew that when it got to where I couldn't take care of ALL the children, my housework and still be a wife, then we needed to stop having kids. So far, this isn't my limit. I'm the caretaker of the house, the children, and I school them all... And I don't feel overwhelmed. But then... I don't do anyyyyything to bring in an income. My home, children and hubby are IT. Ya know? If I had a Job of some sort, I know I would feel more stressed by it. All that to say... I'm in my element here... Taking care of and nurturing my family. But I don't want to get to a point where I have to push my children on each other just to get through the day....

ETA: I know some families function this way... and I don't want to sound like I'm shaking my finger at them/you if you do things this way. It just isn't something that I'm comfortable with *my family*. I saw how it changed my sister's relationship with me... she was five years older than me and charged with caring for me a lot... and she still holds a grudge about having to "wash my hands" and "hold my hand". Funny huh? So, having experienced that first hand in *my* family, growing up, I don't want there to be room for that kind of resentment. --- but I *do* find that Emma/Helen *want* to help and volunteer to do things for me all the time... now *this* kind of thing I allow, and even take time to point out how "grown up" and selfless that is of them. Most children don't offer to do that kind of thing, so I want to praise them whenever they automatically just DO something to help, or ask if they can help me. Anyway... just wanted to specify a bit there. :)

All our kids have age appropriate chores and are expected to clean up after themselves. They also make their own breakfasts and lunches from age 4 onwards. My kids all 'help' with Hayley (baby), but they probably don't realise it! LOL. She needs lots of therapy and with homeschooling etc, I find it difficult to do it all myself. So my kids all have a turn each 'playing' with Hayley. We tell them this is important to build relationship with her. Her play (therapy) just involves things like teaching her to clap, build blocks, distracted tummy time etc. The kids all love playing with her, and feel important that they are helping her improve.
I have been very blessed that my 10 year old loves caring for Hayley - she often says she wants to have 150 children and homeschool them all when she grows up :shock:
So whenever she asks to take Hayley outside or to her room for a play, or to change her nappy etc, I don't refuse (unless she is meant to be doing schoolwork). However, I have a friend who expects her oldest (12 yr old) to take care of their baby alot. That 12 yr old only ever talks bitterly about the baby, and says she never wants kids when she grows up. It's a sad situation.
Regarding the hormonal thing:
Annie (10 yr old) started that a year ago. I found going through 'The princess and the Kiss' study with her every night, plus having regular 'talk' times has made a huge difference. I also had to crack down more on her disrespect (which is more a result of her feeling like she should be able to act like an adult now that she's older).