So, as my thread title suggests, I am looking for personal input, thoughts, and suggestions from other parents who choose to find alternatives to spanking.

I have a very strong willed child and for various reasons DH and I have decided that spanking is not the way to go.

So, how do you discipline, other than time outs?

Can you describe how it works in your home?

TIA!

Please note: This is not a debate thread on spanking. DH and I have personally decided that spanking is NOT in the best interest of our family, for various personal reasons. I am looking for people to share about discipline methods that don't use spanking. Please keep your remarks to that subject. Thanks!

we use a few non-spanking methods from time to time including:

1. sitting on the steps. must not talk. must sit on hands.
2. standing with nose in the corner. no turning around. no talking.
3. no speaking. self-explanatory! :-)

I guess that it...whatever the discipline, after it's over they are required to tell us how they disobeyed, apologize and ask for forgiveness.

Ditto Kate on #2. Standing in the corner with their nose in the corner has at times proved very effective. It serves to really isolate outside destractions and causes them to focus on the punishment.

We tried having our strong-willed child to stand with his nose in a corner. But he just wouldn't stay. He would slide down in the floor, peek around, even picked at things on the wall - tearing the wall! Any suggestions on how to make that work?

I am happy you asked this Ruth! (regardless of my believing that spanking is ok sometimes) I do want to raise Natalia without it (as much as possible)... As my parents never spanked my brother and me... (only sometimes spanked my sister... but ... I would say that it was necessary in those times they did.... but it was never their first choice) ... but I see Natalia having a complete mind of her own and I like that about her but I want her to CHOOSE obedience.... Right now she is 18mo. and I wonder what to do... I mean I get to her level and hold her hand and talk to her very firmly when she does something wrong... but she doesn't seem to care most of the time... does the "going to the corner" apply for such young kids? How do you make sure they understand what is going on? She can't really apologize now and I am sure it will take her a little bit longer than other kids to speak because I speak Spanish and Josh speaks English to her (which is great and we know is the best for her) but we also realize this will make it all "slower" -talking wise- for her....

I would say she is really well behaved (people are really surprise with the way she is) and she is peaceful in general... But I want to know what to do for those times when she "throws tantrums" or gives me "an attitude"

I hope I can find some good info her about that... I do not like to just "spank" her as any of my first "discipline choices" as I think it only makes her have anger inside and be even more strong willed....

Thanks!

Paloma.

Thanks Paloma! I think that what you said nailed the nail on the head for me. I did not want this to become a controversial thread about spanking, because I don't necessarily believe that spanking is always inherently wrong, nor do I judge other people for doing what they feel is best for their family.

It's just that for my DH and I in our specific situation, raising OUR specific kids, spanking is not for US. :D

I want to continue to learn good discipline ideas that can replace spanking for us.

One thing that I'm going to try is this:

My DD has a chronic habit of getting into things and dumping things out. Spanking and time out have not stopped it. My plan is to have a jar of oreo cookies (gluten free and dairy free!) and every day that she doesn't break into anything, she gets a cookie. If she breaks into anything, then her Daddy or I get to eat her cookie for the day. In other words, if she dumps out our stuff, she loses her stuff.

First of all my appologies for not reading all the replys, but wanted to add my input.

I use time out method, Sinead is also strong willed and can get quite gobby. So I give her one warning when the behaviour is not acceptable. Then if the behaviour continues she gets 6 mins time out, she gets told why she is there and then left for the 6 mins. Then when the 6 mins is up I tell her again why she was there and what I expect instead of that behaviour then make she she appologies.

I have found though with Sinead that I give her challenges to help her earn pockett money and this has helped. I have not done it for a few days but I do try to get her doing age approiate chores and she has lists that she has to follow, for bed, waking and coming home from school.

Just wanted to add a few things...

Ruth, when I get challenged by my kids behaviors while I do have several options for discipline in place (loss of privileges, toys taken away, time out, etc.) one of the things that has really started to work for us is a reward system, as you've mentioned you are going to try. Here's what we do, in case it is of any interest:

We printed off some behaviour charts (http://www.freeprintablebehaviorcharts.com/behaviorcharts3-10.htm ...scroll down to see the options....I think Becca was the one who posted this site a while back!) and have started to put three things for the kids to work on. Then they get a sticker every time I need to reward them for *good* behaviour. This way, I can reward them more than once a day where appropriate. (Especially when we started to do this....now that the system is in place and understood, they have to show the good behaviour for the entire day.) I went to the dollar store and got some small prizes (like stickers, plastic rings, craft things, dress up things - last time I found a tiara) and then the kids get a prize after 5 stickers. Just recently dh and I also let them build up to 10 stickers and then we take them to the video store and they can choose something to rent. (Our local store has a section with free kids rentals!) It usually takes them a week to earn their 10 stickers so it isn't getting expensive, and the incentive is working wonders for them. :D

And just a side note for Paloma....I have *just* started to put Callum in the occasional time out. Usually it is for doing something that creates a big mess (ie getting into the potted plants) and I make him sit while I get it cleaned up. I talk to him about it, and right now he may only understand that mommy is upset and wants him to sit, but he'll get it eventually. And while he can't literally say "I'm sorry", I do *tell* him to say sorry and get him to give the person he offended a hug/kiss. Again, eventually he will be able to say sorry and having 'heard' the requirement for so long it won't come as a completely new thing, kwim? HTH!

Thanks for the ideas Kim! That is very helpful. I'll have to talk to DH about printing off some charts and doing some incentives.

It is illegal to discipline kids by spanking in New Zealand. So we use the alternatives only.

We usually send our kids to their room to cool down or get in their right minds again - it usually works well for this purpose. It also gives me a moment to sort out the mess or take a few calming breaths. My kids are really social - so they hate to be separated from the family even for a moment. My son (aged 5) is old enough to talk about it afterwards - what we expect, how he thinks he could have handled the situation better. My daughter is simply expected to listen to us and apologise sincerely (which she is pretty good at because we reinforced it from a young age - initially she simply had to hug the person she had hurt).

At times they will have to miss out on a treat if they have misbehaved - particularly if this is a logical consequence ie. they have held us up with their behaviour so there is no time left for the treat. Usually we don't take toys away because I have found they they complain briefly and then forget about the toy completely - so it has very minimal impact.

We are just getting started on star charts which I think will work well particularly for my 5 year old (thanks for posting that link for the charts Kim - that will be perfect for us). It remains to be seen whether it works for my 3 year old - I have found that the younger ones seem to find it harder to connect the immediate behavior with a reward - and my daughter's particular personality type is not really future minded (iykwim).

Ruth- it sounds like we're on a similar path. Some of the proactive approaches we've found helpful:
- when communicating request: physical contact, get on their level
- wait 5 seconds for compliance, restate using when, then statements (eg: When you finish putting your toys away, then we can have snack) or restate and remind of time in/quiet time. Time in is sitting quietly near me- like time out but keeping the physical contact.

for stuff like messes- ok get your cloth (or broom) you need to clean up your mess. For chronic stuff- I think a standing consequence like removal of toy or tv or whatever.

Since we try to reserve spanking as a "last resort" kind of discipline, some other things we have found helpful are...

*reward system (stickers mostly have worked so far as DS is only 3)

*time outs

*loss of privileges (DS LOVES his limited DVD time he gets, so it has worked great in some instances for him to lose this privilege for discipline)

*gaining complete attention by getting on DS's level and very close to his face, holding his chin, and saying sternly what we expect. I usually follow this up with a, "Do you understand?" It's either that I have used this phrase enough with the expected answer of "Yes, ma'am," or the tone, but now his automatic response is, "Yes, ma'am," and problem is usually solved... at least for the time being

My MIL raised 2 boys who have both become very strong, stable adults. She also has taught kindergarten in a Christian school for many years. She has encouraged us to really continue being consistent and addressing behavior immediately that is unacceptable. DS has been going through what we feel is a big testing phase and we are dealing with what we feel is an attitude when something happens he does not like or we will not let him do something. She has observed us addressing this, which is mostly where her comments are coming from. She says one thing she has noticed with many parents through the years is that they sort of "give up" when they don't see the change they are wanting in the timeframe I guess they are expecting it should happen.

[reading] I am reading and learning... I might even bookmark this thread! once again, thanks for asking this Ruth!

In my case... I am not so sure about "giving her something" when she does as told... I mean... I want to encourage her, praise her, etc... (but I do not want to "give her something in exchange for good behavior) I want Natalia to learn that "it feels good to do good" you do not need to receive anything for it... I do not want to raise her in a way that she does "the right thing" to get something out of it.... IYKWIM.... I like the idea of her "losing some benefits" as a consequence if she is not a good girl....

My parents never gave us anything in exchange but they always praised good behavior so much that we were "proud" (if you could call it that way) to be "good kids" ... and something that now I know my parents always did was to "not speak about the bad" (let me explain) for example... my parents never said things like "She is disobedient, she has such a temper, etc" at least NOT IN FRONT OF US.... They wouldn't speak with their friends about the "bad things we did" they didn't want us to "hear" about it.... because my dad says that that only makes things worse as it "reinforces" a behavior and makes the kids BELIEVE "they are disobedient" and even ... feel "proud about it" ... I have an aunt who would always say "There is nothing I can do with these kids, they will not obey me no matter what I do" so... my cousins DID ACT like that... and one of them even told me once... "Even my mom can't deal with me! she even says it!"

So... I try to make sure I praise Natalia and tell her how beautiful and obedient she is... and even now I can see in her face the expression of JOY when I praise her good behavior.. When Josh comes home the first thing I say (after the "I love you") is.... "Natalia was such a good girl today!" and then I tell him the things that she still needs to "improve on" ... he he....

When she was bad during the day I tell her that daddy is going to know about that... and then I just tell Josh... that Natalia didn't behave as good as usual (But I don't say that SHE IS disobedient or bad) and Josh acts accordingly (talks to her and is serious and not as playful for a while) Natalia then becomes all kisses! It's even funny to see how much she wants to kiss him when she knows she did something wrong, etc...

But I still have a LOT of work to do... and she is only 18mo. she hasn't reached the 2yr. (I am scared) and I don't know if I will be "speaking the same way" after a while... I hope so! and I hope I can keep up and apply all the stuff I am learning from all of you!

Paloma.

P
I think that is a very helpful reminder- kids will rise to the expectation. If they hear that they are disobedient- they will be disobedient. I try use words like- J had trouble saying goodbye (when leaving somewhere) or had difficulty listening the first time... etc.

I think Tara has recommended this GYOBP- get off your butt parenting and it's sister site ALOFF... fabulous!!!!!